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  #1  
Old 09-12-2015, 10:21 AM
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Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

Started off as the standard two filter replacement and 6 quarts of ATF+4 job. Nothing special thought it was time for the job. Have had no issues with the tranny shifting or acting strange in any way what so ever, just thought it was time.

Purchased the Jeep new in 2001 and have done 100% of the driving/maintenance myself

Much to my dismay as clearly seen (SORRY Can't figure out how to post the picture as an attachment) there is a small portion of a small spring stuck to the magnet. Started with some words that can not be printed here after seeing that thing.

Currently 85K miles on the tranny

Last time I took the pan off was at 40K a full ten years ago (the Jeep does not get driven much). Have no idea how long that spring has been in the WRONG place as in the bottom of the pan.

Question

Where do you believe it could have come from?
Yes I know the tranny how about a specific place within the tranny

Suggestions....comments help in any way other than telling me I'm basically screwed

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  #2  
Old 09-12-2015, 11:44 AM
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Re: Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

Welcome to the garage.
Without seeing the spring, it will just be guessing. Known springs to fail are the accumulator springs (approx 3mm thick metal spring). But normally the pieces will stay inside the accumulator, unless the accumulator plate bolts broke. A failing accumulator spring normally results in a rough shift for the concerning clutch.
Also known is the failure of a clutch snapring in the input clutch assembly. Replacement for this one requires lowering the transmission.
To post a picture, just click on the paperclip sign and choose the picture to be attached.
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Old 09-13-2015, 09:14 AM
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Re: Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

Thanks for the guesses
and the paper clip

Here are the pictures
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC05802.JPG (219.6 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg DSC05797.JPG (202.1 KB, 10 views)
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Old 09-13-2015, 09:26 AM
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Re: Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

Update

Hooked up my DRBIII
The TCM has no current or inactive DTC's or Flash Frame data
No DTC's anywhere in the ECM or elsewhere not even the extended range / over range blend door codes which occur every few years

A guess that piece of spring attached to the magnet is 3/16" long and 1/8" wide
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Old 09-13-2015, 12:45 PM
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Re: Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

I will have a look into the manual to see which spring it eventually could be. Since the transmission is working normally and no DTC´s set, i would not worry too much at this point.
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:31 PM
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Re: Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

Ok, so the accumulator springs are rulled out, as well as the clutch snapring.
Here follow some ideas from where the spring piece could be coming from:
1) Park pawl rod return spring. (eventhough the broken piece would not fall of the rod that easily)
2) 4th clutch piston return spring pack.
3) Underdrive clutch piston return spring pack.
4) One of the pump control valve springs.

Looking at the pictures, i almost would say that it is a piece of a piston return pack spring. Attached some manual pages for your reference. If it would be a piston return pack spring, i would not worry too much. There are many of those springs in the pack and one less (or at least, with less actuating pressure) would not prevent normal transmission operation.
The piece of broken spring is quite small, but can you feel if it would have been a weak spring, or a stronger one? The piston return springs are quite strong, while a valve spring would be quite weak.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 5-45RFE park pawl rod.pdf (89.9 KB, 4 views)
File Type: pdf 4 clutch piston return spring pack.pdf (122.9 KB, 4 views)
File Type: pdf Underdrive clutch piston return spring pack.pdf (139.5 KB, 4 views)
File Type: pdf Pump valve springs.pdf (130.5 KB, 4 views)
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Old 09-13-2015, 04:44 PM
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Re: Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

Thanks for the pointers


I also have the factory service manual but appreciate the links


Took the valve body out this morning. Found the accumulator springs even the smaller internal ones are all larger in diameter than my broken part which is 0.333" diameter and looks as if 2 full turns were broken off the larger spring.


Also took the solinoid pack assembly apart (wow what a pain to get reassemblied) all springs are in good shape inside there as well.


Ordered the TransGo kit and will replace the springs and seals in the accumulators when it arrives early next week


Sure would like to find the root cause of this piece of scrap metal in the pan


Right now i do not want to remove the tranny from the vehicle but have a nice work shop to do if needed
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Old 09-13-2015, 06:26 PM
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Re: Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

"The piece of broken spring is quite small, but can you feel if it would have been a weak spring, or a stronger one? The piston return springs are quite strong, while a valve spring would be quite weak."

Sorry i missed this question earlier - too much disappointment working on the Jeep today

The spring part is 0.33" diameter and 0.13" long with just less than 2 full turns broken off
Feels like a rather strong spring - way stronger than say a Ball Point pen spring - I can compress it with my fingers with out letting any blood out of the fingers but not much.

Sure appreciate the help

Ever opened up the solenoid pack?
WOW what a pain in the rear to get it back together properly had to use a bent large copper wire to hold the parts from falling out


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Old 09-13-2015, 06:26 PM
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Re: Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

The attached pages are from the transmission manual, not the jeep service manual.
Did you disassemble the whole TRS/solenoid block? Are you sure you mounted the rubber membranes of the pressure switches in the same way as they came out? I found it out the hard way that there is only one correct way to mount them. Wrongly mounting them will result in a pressure switch which doesn´t close anymore, so a DTC will be set and strange transmission behaviour occurs. Also did you get a new seal plate for between the solenoid block and the valve body? My experience is that once installed, during removal the small seal pads get damaged and internal leaks will occur, causing clutch problems.
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Old 09-13-2015, 09:13 PM
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Re: Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

Thanks for the tips

Yes the solenoid block was taken apart
I'm 99% sure everything is exactly the same way as it was before being removed
WOW - what a pain in the back side holding the solenoid plungers in place while getting the two half's together and aligned

Guess only time will tell

I did look at the rubber membranes and springs several times - they all went back in the very same way either all wrong or all correct - even pulled out the "brass" plungers under the solenoid actuators to make sure they went back in the very same way.

The rubber gasket/metal filter assembly with two screws holding it in place between the valve assembly and solenoid assembly looked good - but will take your advise and replace it before reinstalling the entire assembly
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Old 09-14-2015, 06:01 AM
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Re: Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

Do you still have the old black receptacle solenoid block, or the newer white receptacle block? I opened up both and they have different solenoids inside. The white one i had to open up after the transmission was rebuild by a transmission shop and they wrongly installed one clutch pack, with as a result that a stator disc started rotating inside the aluminum housing. Aluminum was worn away and spread through the fluid, so went into everything. At that time i also got a repair kit for the solenoid block, with some seals and new rubber membranes.
The brass plunjers are the electrical contact points for the pressure switches. The membranes are only flexible to one side, so for that reason, mounting them inversely will result in a pressure switch which doesn´t work anymore. Just as a reference an exploded view of the solenoid block.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf TRS-solenoid block.pdf (233.6 KB, 2 views)
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:07 AM
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Re: Help - '02 WJ Overland w/545RFE trany issues

Sorry to hear you had tranny issues as well - guess sooner or later they all do

The solenoid is all black - Guess it's the older one
Numbers on the side 2831 / 100703

Any suggestions as to where I can purchase a rebuild kit the solenoid pack
The Jeep will be on my lift for some time so I figure rebuild / replace as much as possible when it's opened up

The tranny case # 28912105QP52119099AC
Not sure how to decode this but I'm told it has all the tranny info embedded in the number
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