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  #37  
Old 09-22-2009, 09:29 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPepper View Post
And wasn't it 25* cooler?

What was the track temp for the 14.5999999999 and what was the track temp for the 14.25?
14.25- 61 degrees.

14.495- 75 degrees.

14.599- 78 degrees.
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  #38  
Old 09-22-2009, 09:30 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

LOL.....+rep for the admission
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  #39  
Old 09-22-2009, 10:49 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxSTUGOTSxox View Post
How much would the 180tstat help?
Frankie, it depends on the tune- most specifically, just how agressive it is. More power is actually made the HOTTER a motor is, but a hotter motor means more detonation. Running a cooler thermostat would provide no gains on , say, a stock PCM calibration, but a hot 93 pump gas tune, etc, it would allow you to run a few more degrees (how many depends on just how close to the ragged edge you are) of timing. This typically translates into more power.

So ultimately, the cooler the thermostat, the more timing (to an extent) you can run without pinging. I'm not overly familiar with DSP but you should be able to log knock retard ....I bet with a stock stat, the CMR tune may be running a little too much timing at WOT, which means the knock sensors are pulling timing, not only making it run richer but retarding timing which means it will be significantly slower.

I run a Jet 180 in my 4.7. I have been having cooling issues (I have a hot 93 file from Sean Powell via SCT) so I'll be tossing in an aftermarket radiator tomorrow, but just as extra insurance, I'll be drilling a small hole in my t-stat to keep it at no higher than 180 at all times. I don't have knock sensors to save my butt like the Hemi's do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPepper View Post
bump
see above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Presley View Post
14.25- 61 degrees.

14.495- 75 degrees.

14.599- 78 degrees.
All this talk brings up an excellent point- For comparison's sake, I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS correct my times for Density Altitude. This allows me to remove weather as a consideration for differences between runs, especially on different days.
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  #40  
Old 09-22-2009, 10:58 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Presley View Post
14.25- 61 degrees.

14.495- 75 degrees.

14.599- 78 degrees.

Corrected (In Order):

14.237 @ 94.617 MPH

14.34 @ 95.066 MPH

14.313 @ 95.378 MPH





So what can we gain from this Ryan? I am curious to find out the answer as to why my Jeep runs so much stronger than T-Man's or Frankie's.
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  #41  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:00 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

Thanks for the clarification.
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  #42  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:02 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

Oh wait so the 180 helps?


But how can that be when the fans on the 5.7 are hydraulic?
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  #43  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:17 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Presley View Post
Corrected (In Order):

14.237 @ 94.617 MPH

14.34 @ 95.066 MPH

14.313 @ 95.378 MPH





So what can we gain from this Ryan? I am curious to find out the answer as to why my Jeep runs so much stronger than T-Man's or Frankie's.
Thanks for the corrections Joe.

What we can gain from this, is that things are not always as they seem. What is T-man's corrected time? Once we know that, then we know the true difference between the two Jeeps.

Without seeing datalogs/AFR's, I am making educated guesses at best, but I would dare to say that with warmer coolant temps, he may be picking up some knock retard, especially if he's losing alot of time towards the back half of the track.

The faster you're going, obviously the higher of a gear you're in (creating more load), and the more other factors like drag kick in (further increasing load). The more load you have, the more likely you are to get spark knock/detonation. Unless the Hemi PCM is different in its logic than the older JTEC computers, once timing is retarded, it will not make the necessary adjustments to the AFR to bring it back in check. So with the PCM retarding timing, not only do you have less timing than normal, but also a rich AFR.

The other scenario- and this would produce similiar results- is if the intake setup T-man is using is picking up alot of hot air, it will register on the IAT, which if not disabled, will also make the PCM pull timing. With the SCT tuner we have rendered this sensor useless so the PCM will not pull timing when it gets heat-soaked.

Again, this might not be 100% accurate because I'm basing this info off my experience with the 4.7 and JTEC tuning, but it should be similiar in function.

Honestly, if you are doing ANY sort of CMR tuning, if you're not on the dyno you NEED a wideband.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPepper View Post
Thanks for the clarification.
You're very welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Presley View Post
Oh wait so the 180 helps?


But how can that be when the fans on the 5.7 are hydraulic?
the later 4.7s have a hydraulic fan too. These fans spin at a lower rpm (but spin nonetheless) at all times, but go into a high-speed setting when they exceed a certain temp. On the 4.7 , stock calibration triggers the high speed at 220* F. PCM tuning can change this setting, but the thermostat regulates coolant flow.
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  #44  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:19 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

I can't wait for Tuesday
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  #45  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:27 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPepper View Post
I can't wait for Tuesday
I dont have any direct experience with the DSP, but I can tell you that even on a mildly modded late model Mopar the difference between a canned tune and a dialed in custom tune is awesome. If you have a 180 stat laying around, INSTALL IT!
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  #46  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:34 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

+rep for Sleepy for all the help and explanations!
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  #47  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:35 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

Thank You for the explanation Ryan. Jeremy, please get in here with your corrected times. I don't have the slips.

Well I did a datalog with these same exact mods and I see that I get around 6 degrees short term knock. Its from the pump gas containing 10% ethanol. And on the 14.255 and 14.599 run, I had pump gas in the Jeep and on the 14.495 I had a gallon of 100 in the tank.


+Rep for you Ryan.
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  #48  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:39 PM
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Re: CMR Tunes...

Do the CMR tunes change based on your driving habits?

For instance, TMan drives 4 hours to get to the track using cruise control at 70mph!
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