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Old 01-24-2010, 03:25 AM
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FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

I just returned home from a LONG day at Hannes' house. We have been planning for a few weeks now to install the 08 manifold today. To get all of our ducks in a row, it required driving 350+ miles to meet Air Ram in Jupiter, FL (due to a shipping issue with the adapters), not including some of the craziness we encountered today.

I may be mistaken, but I believe I am the first person to successfully swap a 08 manifold into a 4.7 WJ. After going through the process myself I can safely say that this is not a mod for the faint of heat. It requires major modifications that cannot be reversed.

Long story short...

We started at 2:15, got a plug we needed at Home Depot. we got back to the house, started pulling the coil packs and related hardware. We made amazing time considering we were bagging everything together at this point- all in all the teardown took only about 30-45 mins.

We had a minor issue with pulling the bolt holding the manifold down in front of Cyl #2 but were able to get it out with some force. We went to go pull the manifold, and it came about halfway out, but it wasn't even close to being free to pull out. it appeared that the alternator, AC compressor, and the fuel crossrail were all interfering. Mainly the crossrail, which had limited flexibility

Given the shape of the WJ's firewall we felt that if we cut part of the cowling that it would give us enough room to pull the manifold out. Didn't happen. However, that same cut was the only way we would have been able to get the 08 manifold in. So in the long run, it was necessary.

After 2 hours or so of struggling (3.5 hours in total at that point), we decided to finally remove the alternator, compressor, and possibly the fuel rails. the AC and the alt were easy....the fuel rails did NOT want to budge. after another hour of cursing and carefully prying, we were able to pull the rails. 5 hours, and we finally pulled the manifold out.

The manifold went in easily and seems better placed in the bay, but by that point we had a ton of hoses and sensor plugs scattered throughout the engine bay. Since we worked non-stop, fatigue was starting to set in, so we both took our time and split the tasks up whenever possible. There was alot to re-connect and to modify since the 08 manifold has different provisions than the 02 non-HO manifold that I have.

So we are buttoning everything back up- the manifold is secured, the coil packs are on, the grounds are attached, adapters are secured to the manifold, the TB is about to be bolted up...and then it hits me. there is no room for the throttle/cruise control linkage!!!! Long story short I tore off a large chunk of firewall padding and just barely made it fit.

The whole project, including short meal/drink/texting breaks, a trip to the parts store, etc etc took 10 hours. Hannes and I both agreed that if we ever did this swap to another WJ, it could be done in about half that time now that we know what to look for. We also agreed that if we were ever to do that again, for someone else's WJ, it would not be done for free. It's a very big project.

Hannes will hopefully post more about today when he logs on tomorrow, I do have pics and vids.
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:41 AM
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Re: FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

AWESOME! Cant wait to see some bigger pics and video...That cell phone pic was a tease!
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:50 AM
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Re: FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

good job
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:29 PM
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Re: FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

That's so cool man! Can't wait for pictures and video!
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:07 PM
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Re: FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

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Originally Posted by Chaoul1 View Post
That's so cool man! Can't wait for pictures and video!
x2 Damn man, sounds like you had a fun time with that manifold j/k. Glad everything went in though and can't wait for photos and vids.
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:52 PM
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Re: FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

how does it feel on the road?
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:49 PM
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Re: FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

cant wait to see!!!
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Old 01-24-2010, 04:00 PM
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Re: FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

it is a biatch. Ive done it by myself twice now and the second time took half the time
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Old 01-24-2010, 04:39 PM
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Re: FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

Yup! Ryan's story hits it right on the head. I was excited that we got the manifold loose is such a short amount of time, but then the dreaded fuel rail held us up for LOOONG time.

Ryan took pictures with his Droid, and when we went to take it for a test drive I got out and took a couple of vids. He will do the honors and post them up when he's done sleeping...LOL!

All I know is...that Ryan's WJ is a BEAST now. It sounds ridiculous, and pulls wayyy stronger/harder from 3000 rpm's to Ryans 6000 rpm shift point.

Like he said, its one heck of a job. Space is tight under a WJ's hood, so if you're thinking about tackling this project, just get yourself ready for a full day's worth of work.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:50 PM
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Re: FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

Quote:
Originally Posted by baronvonhavok View Post
how does it feel on the road?
Before I answer this question I would like to first publicly express my sincere thanks to Hannes', his parents, and their neighbor Tony. Without their help and support I likely would have not been able to complete this swap on my own. Hannes' parents treated me as one of their own, spoiling me with home-made food and natural South African sweet tea. His dad also came out to help us occasionally, in the meantime teaching us valuable tricks he's learned over the years. Tony also was instrumental in pulling the fuel rails off and lending us key tools and fluids. I consider Hannes himself to be a great friend after selflessly offering his help for this project and I am very very grateful that he stuck it out along with me until we were finished.

It should also be mentioned that I am not tuned for this manifold. I am currently running a mostly dialed in (for an 02 manifold) 93 octane file from Sean Powell. AFR was previously 12.5-12.8 across the board, with a somewhat aggressive spark map.

After this manifold I need a major retune. This manifold will be on the edge of safe on a stock JTEC calibration, but for NGC I would highly recommend custom tuning. Superchips will not be enough for this modification regardless of PCM.

I have an 02 manifold, which is (along with 99-01) the worst flowing of all the 4.7 manifolds. 03-07 manifolds are not really much better if at all. So I had the most to gain from this. I may have some WOT power loss off the line (I'm not sure- I need to verify this at the track), and the power seems to be a little soft from 2200-3000 (this may be in part due to becoming significantly richer- mid 11s ), but come 3000 rpm on it goes into a DRASTIC and unmistakable change in character. The intake literally starts screaming (It's loud all the time but now it is WAY louder) and there is a HUGE surge in tq. From 3000 rpms to 6000 it pulls like a freight train. I just came back from a little drive with a friend of mine who weighs 350+ lbs and when it switches over at 3000, even at a slow roll it sucked his ass into the seat.

With the 02 manifold, my tq curve stayed at peak from 3200 to 4200 rpms, and then nose dove. What this means in reference to the 1/4 mile is that with my 1-2 and 2-3 shift recovery being 3500 and 3900 respectively is that I was spending the majority of my 1/4 mile with a rapidly dwindling tq (and hp) curve. Now, I am spending far more time in the peak of my power band, with the power band being greater than what it was previously. Even without the tune there is no doubt in my mind that I am significantly faster than I was prior to the swap.

Regarding the FRP TB, this is the same one that I used on the 02 manifold and has been the guinea pig for all my TB testing. It's not pretty but it gets the job done. This is just my experience but before, with my TB and the 02 manifold and the SCT 93 tune, under a load I was seeing alot of weird AFR fluctuations and inconsistencies before it would go into open loop fueling. I thought that perhaps the HUGE inlet and 68mm blade were skewing with the CL/OL algorithms. Now with the 08 manifold, under the same load, the same calibration now gradually makes a seamless transition from stoich to OL. OL triggering leads to AFR dipping down to about 10.7-11.3 AFR which is way too rich (it should be at about 12.5-13.5 at this throttle position), but that is an easy fix. For whatever reason the PCM is much happier with this manifold than the 02.

I have several pics and vids, I am trying to upload them to youtube at the moment. I mistakenly had Hannes film them in low-res, so I apologize for the poorer than usual quality.

Edit: Here are the photos


What it started out as...I coated it with flat alumnum VHT flame proof and the it looked likethis

Then it came time to tear shit up...this is what we started with



I think at this point the manifold was loose and ready to be pulled

This is after pulling the fuel rails, compressor, altrnator, etc etc etc and the old manifold is out

Same time , just closer up

Manifold is finally in

And this is with everything buttoned up together with a VERY VERY temporary PVC intake....I have a custom 4" ceramic coated intake I've designed myself ready to go but the sillicone couplers I purchased did not arrive in time.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:04 PM
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Re: FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

South African sweet tea is the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pic Ryan.....Pics. Your killing me.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:47 PM
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Re: FRP TB + VHT coated 08 manifold combo installed

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Originally Posted by Chaoul1 View Post
South African sweet tea is the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pic Ryan.....Pics. Your killing me.
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