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Heads, Cam, Intake Mani

4K views 21 replies 9 participants last post by  yousmellfunnytoo 
#1 ·
So, as the year goes on, I plan to start doing some big things. I know a few of you have had cyclinder heads and such done to your rides, so input would be great.

I didnt know much about all this, but I think this is a great place to pick up some extra horse power, and some awesome sound :)

What are you guys using for heads and cams? I am pretty sure I am going to do the eagle 09 intake manifold. I know amw5 has this and there was a thread on it not long ago, but I was wondering if it comes with the injectors. If it doesn't would stock 6.1 injectors do the trick? What about fuel rails? Do I have to buy a new set or what? Any links would be helpful.

As far as heads go, is it worth me buying heads and not upgrading the internals? Should I do a full forged rotating assembly? so down the road I wont have to take the motor out again?

Heads I am looking at are the Inertia motorsports ones:
5.7L Inertia Performance Cylinder Heads:
Link: http://www.inertiamotorsports.com/cylinderheads.html

Any work on these? I have seen some good results on other sites and other cars. Specifically the LX bodies. Not sure if there is much of a difference between the Jeep 5.7 and the LX 5.7's

For the Cam, I am looking at the Spartan MAX cam from Inertia:
http://www.inertiamotorsports.com/SPARTAN MAX.html

Another issue as mentioned in the manifold thread is that ill probably need that crowler timing kit and the UD pulley. I havnt heard much about the pulley adding anything to the jeep. Anyone have one? Any reviews?

I know I will need a tune after this, i already have a tuner. But I would be going to a rear wheel drive dyno. How do i tune that? do I just pull the Transfer case motor or what? I dont want to do any damage to the front wheel drive system. I am not sure how it works with the quadra drive kit.

Any other Cam/head suggestions?

One other question, is that ill be getting headers around july / august. Do i need to turn after i put in the headers, so can i drive with those without a tune, until I get all the head/cam work done?

Or should I just say forget it and buy NCTS referb turbo kit?
OR
Buy a motorcycle?:lol:
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Unfortunately, I cant just buy that over a period of time. As I mentioned, all this probably wont be installed until around next year

Ill buy parts starting now, and then do one big install

I know for a fact if i buy the turbo system, I am going to go nuts and have it installed right away.

I need to purchase a lot with the turbo system, gauges etc. I am sure I can do the turbo install myself but could I drive it a few miles to a shop to have it tuned with a Preditor? Or do I need the other system Tim uses as a piggy back?

Edit: And the whole Meth inject. set up? Maybe I cant install it myself :(. Plus, there goes my new catback :))
 
#6 · (Edited)
All depends on what you want. If it were my truck? I'd buy the NCTS kit.

That being said...if you stay N/A...On a new gen Hemi I would go with a set of Sharadon SP2 heads and a KRC/Comp Camshaft. Or Killian Heads.
 
#7 ·
i'm going to have to be the one to disagree. i just wouldnt feel safe doing forced induction on a motor with stock internals. speaking from experience i put a vortech s-trim on my stock motor in my mustang and it ran great for about 20k, but it was downhill after that. i ended up buying a forged shortblock and boosting it and it was rock solid then. i say do heads and cam.
 
#8 ·
What happened? Comparing a Hemi, which has very tight tolerances (albeit problems with shattering ringlands) is apples to oranges in comparison to a SBF 302. 302s are awesome and all, don't take this the wrong way, but it has different problems than these motors.

No matter how you get your power, failures can always happen....this is the game we play when we exceed factory designs.
 
#9 ·
THanks for the input

As far as heads go.. Whats the difference in the sheradon sp2's and the inertia? other than about 500 bucks? The inertia has the same springs and lifters and valve size for less cash, and an even less core charge

And cams are a dime a dozen there are a ton out there but inertia has a few clips of different hemi cars and trucks and they sound so badass.

After this thread though, I am considering the NCTS turbo.. I hope tim can pipe in about the system, but do I HAVE to run the meth injection if i use his system? Can i just run lower boost and not have to worry about it?

The probablem is that, looking at his install pictures, is the windshield wiper fluid tank becomes a meth / water tank for the turbo... I kinda like being able to clean my windshields

Also, can I boost it and then drive it without a tune for a few miles or do i have to have it tuned right then and there? I dont want to buy the Iems3 or whatever system when I already have a capable tuner.

One more thing, I know I will have to upgrade the trans to handle the cams and heads, I know I probably should with the turbo, but how much horsepower and torque can the stock 5.7 trans handle? I know the transfer cases can hold about 600hp and I dont think i would be making anywhere near that

No one for the motorcycle option? Looking at getting a used shadow vt600 and turning it into a bobber... here is a quick photoshop of a few ideas:
From this:

To this:
 
#11 ·
You're welcome.

The difference is in the quality. http://nadodge.com/showthread.php?t=2911 Have a read there, the OP has spent 30k with Stu.

The Sharadon boys have the fastest Hemi Ram (11.08) in a 5000+ lb 4x4. They specialize in forced induction, although they just put together a NASTY 392 N/A stroker that will see a healthy dosage of dope.

I'm not necessarily pushing one vendor or another, I try not to sip anyone's kool-aid, but there is much more out there than what Stu offers.

Based on what's been seen out there, anything beyond 400 whp is asking alot out of a 545rfe.
 
#13 ·
You really oughtta read the whole thread.......................You should just register, theres alot of very knowledgeable people on that site.

As for the sharadon transmissions, its hard to say. the 545rfe is very finicky in general, because it's fully electronic and relies on a 0-5v reference. Theres been alot of premature failures due to bad sensors, bad PCMs, bad converters, etc etc etc. You're better off asking them personally, as I'm just relaying what I've read- I have no direct experience with them.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Still not sure as to what I am going to do yet. But as I continue to do the research, the intertia performance heads dont change the intake and exhaust port size, I would have to step it up to the big valve ones. Or as you mentioned, go with the sheradon sp2's ( might even go the 1's to save a few bucks, but who knows)

I just created an account so ill start poking through that thread

I'd love it it escape chimed in and led me the right way :)

PS.. WOW
For the record i would still pull Stu out of a fire .

So he could watch his kids die and i can personally throw his ass back in.
 
#15 ·
There is another guy on the forums (NA, among others) that had a set of standard valve Inertia heads. he made all of 5 whp on the dyno before/after. He went to a set of PPP heads and was much much much happier.

Another fella a while back was looking to home-port his heads, because he didn't have alot of money, but did have some time and some tools. Stu told him to not waste his time, whereas Sharadon talked with the guy over the phone (knowing full-well what he was looking to do- i.e. not spend money with a shop) telling him where to remove material, etc etc etc. That guy ended up being the 2nd Hemi Ram to run 12's.

Since money is an issue, Did you look into Killian? I dont think he has any 5.7 hemi heads on his site, but I know he's done them. Real nice guy to deal with, does nothing but porting, and the heads he does are real performers. Over 35 years of experience, that has to say something. his prices are KILLER too. His valvework, because he no longer has the machinery to do it in-house, is a little pricier than other shops, but the quality and commitment to service is unparalleled.

I'm just trying to shine some light on a topic that is often heavily biased and filled with unsubstantiated opinions.
 
#16 ·
I've got a "Super Spartan" cam with 6.1L pushrods, SCT tuner and Borla exhaust available if you are interested. I will be posting these items up on the for sale forum shortly (after I take some pictures) for half of what I paid for them.

The SS cam is a great all-around performing cam with a "sneaky" lope...not too lopy. However, if you stomp on it, everyone will know that you have modified your rig! The Eagle intake requires a spacer and different TB bolts...make sure you get the bolts with the manifold from whom ever you purchase it from, for your stock bolts will not work.

The Spartan Max is a decent cam, but our engines benefit from more duration on the exhaust side, for even with performance heads, you'll get better results with a split duration cam rather than a single pattern cam.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Yeah after reading, I am leaning HEAVY to the PPP stage 3 heads. Unfortunately, I think I am going to have to pass on the SRT Max cam too, PPP makes their own to exact specs, so for 20+ shipping more, I can get them to make one for me. As I mentioned I am going to start buying things, but want a general direction of where I am headed, as these probably wont be installed for months.

Thanks for shedding that light on me. I will check out Killian, havnt heard anything about them in the past.

AMW5: I am really looking forward to seeing your ride, because thats where I think I want to head. I was wondering why you didnt go with a forged stroker kit while you were putting in all the work. Will i see that much of a difference in putting a stroker kit in?

Did you use stock injectors? or the 6.1 injectors? what about an oil pump? Did you use the 6.1 or have a different one made or use the stock 5.7 one.

Also, I want a lot of lope... I shouldnt say that, but I want it to SOUND MEANNN
 
#21 ·
From all appearances PPP makes good stuff but from what I have read they do not do their headwork in-house. I can't confirm that.

Killians is dirt cheap for the quality of work provided, until you start getting into valve work. He doesn't have the proper tooling in-house so he outsources that part of the work.

I too am curious to see what AMW's ride does on the dyno, he will be dynotesting with one of my ported TBs. Should be interesting.

6.1 injectors are just too big to be used....

I like a lopey cam as much as the next guy but keep in mind the more overlap there is, the more headaches you're going to run into when it comes time to tune it. Since you're on a budget, you have to take tuning into consideration.....a really hot cam is going to take some $$$$ datalogging equipment or a decent amount of time on a AWD dyno.
 
#19 ·
The SS cam is plenty lopey, but not as much as my SRTMax. I'm getting some random missfires with the later at idle...hopefully not a big problem. Be carefull what you ask for, for I have wayyy too much noise coming out of the SW catback and will be selling it shortly. It's too free flowing with the headers and is letting all of the header sound go straight through...some of you guys would probably like it. However, it's too loud for me. I'm going to try out the stock SRT exhaust next and see if that helps any. The sound from the SS cam and Borla catback was perfect...mean, but not too loud. I hope I can get it to sound that way again. I still need more dyno time to dial in my tune...the Max cam is surging and is harder to tune than the SS.

Regarding the heads...big valves are a waste of coin in my opinion, for I know a few guys out here that are running them and aren't getting much more from them being NA. However, where you would gain would be on a standard set of performance heads or econo heads that have been milled to raise your compression. All of Stu's cams work well with 6.1L springs.

FYI, the bigger the cam, the more power you lose down low...and with AWD Jeeps, a high stall converter is a must for anything bigger than a Spartan cam. My SS cam is the absolute max duration cam I would use without a converter. Because of it's custom profile, it opens the valve quicker but doesn't slam it shut and gives the advantage of more breathing like a bigger duration cam W/O the TQ loss of a longer duration cam. Having said that, it could've benefitted from a converter too, but it's not a must have mod.

I thought about getting stroked, but decided to just get a larger cam and some headers.

I had the 6.1L ('09 5.7L) injectors on at first and they were dumping way too much fuel into the system. So, I took them off and am keeping them handy in case I start to run out of fuel on the stockers at the next dyno session. The stock pre-'09 injectors have more adjustability than the 6.1L injectors. So, if I can get by without the 6.1s, then that is what I plan on doing. The 6.1s are harder to tune, according to my tuner.

Still on the stock oil pump, but puting in a 6.1 wouldn't be a bad idea.
 
#20 ·
I am running the Frank Racing Inc products in my Jeep eventhough its a 6.1 but seen and read about many 5.7 LX's running FRI products and loving the results.

And as far as the bike thing goes, id pass on it personally but the black and red is nice looking.
 
#22 ·
So I am still up in the air as far as motorcycle, a fun project car, or engine overhual with the jeep...

BUT I do know the direction ill be headed for the jeep if I go that route:

Headers within the next month or two

Then:
Sheradon stage 2 valve body
Sheradon SP2 heads
either forged 392 stroker assembly or forged 5.7
Custom Cam
Install
Tune
 
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