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  #13  
Old 08-18-2010, 02:28 AM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

I'm gonna post the results regardless of whether I'm right or wrong; Numbers and graphs.

I want to wait until I change my plugs and coils before I start though, because its running very poorly right now. I ordered them yesterday. The plugs are on 2 1/2 week backorder from Summit, so figure the beginning of September.

Don't forget, I have a fully built top end, so my results and a stock motors results will vary. I do think its safe to say though, that if my motor makes more power on a stock TB, then a stock motor will too.
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  #14  
Old 08-18-2010, 08:19 AM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

There's a member on LXForums that just did a back to back dyno test of a few different sized TB's and cai combinations. He gained 10 HP and tq with the 100mm.

I'm at 500 with stock intake and tb, I will be installing the 100mm and ported intake later this week. I'll be back on the dyno once I get some data logged and the toon adjusted (if needed).

Mike, I don't have any immediate plans for my stock tb, I'd be happy to send it your way for testing then just send it back to me when done.
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  #15  
Old 08-18-2010, 11:11 AM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

I don't see how the 100mm can even work. When Inertia opened up my manifold to 90mm it was right on the O-ring. How can you fit another 10mm without hitting it? Are they running the 100mm without opening the manifold? Or is it only 100 at the front and 90 at the back to increase velocity?
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:24 AM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

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Originally Posted by Mike_Levy View Post
I don't see how the 100mm can even work. When Inertia opened up my manifold to 90mm it was right on the O-ring. How can you fit another 10mm without hitting it? Are they running the 100mm without opening the manifold? Or is it only 100 at the front and 90 at the back to increase velocity?
Most of the O-ring groove is gone to install it. I will get some pics and measurements tonight when I get the manifold and tb back (should be tonight).
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  #17  
Old 08-18-2010, 12:11 PM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

Thanks. I actually just went through the thread on LX. He lost 10hp/10ft/lbs with the bigger TB before tuning. For whatever reason he went rich with it and had to adjust the AFR. That doesn't seem right. More air should lean it out, not fatten it up. Very strange.
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:14 PM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Levy View Post
Thanks. I actually just went through the thread on LX. He lost 10hp/10ft/lbs with the bigger TB before tuning. For whatever reason he went rich with it and had to adjust the AFR. That doesn't seem right. More air should lean it out, not fatten it up. Very strange.
I thought the same thing, never heard of more air making it richer. Who knows.
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  #19  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:02 AM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

Got the pics on my phone, I'll get them posted shortly
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  #20  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:44 AM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

I have the 100mm installed as well. Need to get it on the dyno for numbers.
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Old 08-19-2010, 12:12 PM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Levy View Post
Thats funny because the LX guys have dyno proof that says it is. And not only that, quite a few guys have seen power LOSSES from larger TBs.

I plan to reprove it as soon as I can get my hands on a stock TB. I run a 90mm Arrington, and if I see a gain or the same power when putting on a stocker, the argument is over, because my motor requires more air then any other N/A Stock displacement Hemi out there. If it can't pull a larger TB, none can.

I don't make claims without being able to prove them, so thats what I'm doing. I'm gonna see if I can borrow some ported ones from different companies too.
It's a bit ridiculous to assert that a larger TB produces less peak power, all things being equal (as they rarely ever are). The Hemi engine neither defies the laws of physics nor the conventional knowledge out there about internal combustion engines.

A larger TB may or may not require a re-tune, even if AFRs are safe (Hemi's appear to make max NA power at 12.3-12.5:1 AFR, dependent on mods). A larger TB may (read: will) shift the power curve upward and to the right on a dyno.

Like you, I dont like to make claims I can't back up , and as a vendor, I would NEVER EVER sell a product/part that didn't work. Even though this isn't about me or my TBs, I will say that it's just not possible that a bigger TB that flows more air that does not run into turbulence issues would produce less peak power, regardless of brand or make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Levy View Post
Thanks. I actually just went through the thread on LX. He lost 10hp/10ft/lbs with the bigger TB before tuning. For whatever reason he went rich with it and had to adjust the AFR. That doesn't seem right. More air should lean it out, not fatten it up. Very strange.
Without looking at the dyno, or being there personally, I suspect that either high IATs/spark knock was coming into play (both will pull timing, and pulled timing + no change to fuel tables in PCM= rich AFR= less power), or there was a significant reduction in air charge velocity. I have seen this sort of thing happen first-hand on my own truck when I swapped intake manifolds, where even though I saw a drastically leaner AFR from 3k on up, I saw a slightly richer AFR from 2k-2800rpms.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaz View Post
I thought the same thing, never heard of more air making it richer. Who knows.
All things being equal, more air will make it leaner. period. As mentioned above, I suspect other variables are coming into play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tugboatchad View Post
^^^ How soon till this begins? Im always on the hunt for mods that equal power while being able to keep me in warranty (ill swap it for servicing). Looking forward to your results. If you're wrong you post it right?
A ported TB (or even a aftermarket casting) will not void your warranty.
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  #22  
Old 08-20-2010, 01:16 AM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

I talked to a local dealer tonight, under an assumed name, told them of all my mods and just got real honest as far as so far this season I have at least 100 passes on the strip and that Ive got a service contract for oil changes. They are supposed to be calling me back tomorrow so we shall see. My point being in this is, Id rather be upfront as far as my 180* t-stat and CMR tune plus future mods such as TB intake and such. My simple statement was this, If I break it due to my mods and doing, then its easier for you guys to fix even if at my dime later. We shall see tomorrow!
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speaking of a wiseass, what should anyone care if this friend of yours played with the mets or publicly played with himself. ........

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  #23  
Old 08-20-2010, 02:26 AM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

No mods will void your warranty. SEMAs Bill of Rights protects us unless the mods directly cause a problem. Anybody who says otherwise is flat out WRONG.
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  #24  
Old 08-20-2010, 09:13 AM
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Re: Throttle bodies?!

It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong when your ride is fawked up and they wont fix it because you modded it and you must then hire an attorney to prove it wasn't your mods that did it. So yes they can do it, and you are the fool if you think it would work any other way than that!
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Originally Posted by robpp
speaking of a wiseass, what should anyone care if this friend of yours played with the mets or publicly played with himself. ........

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