The gains from a TB are temporary, and are caused by the mixture being leaned out. The stocker is more then big enough for a stock motor. Unless you have heads/cam and a ported manifold, you don't need anything bigger.
What about extra gain through tune, throttle response, and we are located in DENVER so we need as much air as we can get! I'm not saying bigger is better, but I feel their is room for imporvement on the stock TB, especially on the backside.
We are finishing up a true 84mm TB for the 5.7/6.1 Hemi. I do not yet have pricing info, but it will be competitive/comparable to whats currently on the market.
The gains from a TB are temporary, and are caused by the mixture being leaned out. The stocker is more then big enough for a stock motor. Unless you have heads/cam and a ported manifold, you don't need anything bigger.
What about extra gain through tune, throttle response, and we are located in DENVER so we need as much air as we can get! I'm not saying bigger is better, but I feel their is room for imporvement on the stock TB, especially on the backside.
The PCM has a limited ability to compensate at WOT (open loop) for additional airflow. Adjusting AFR or not, additional airflow is additional airflow. Even if AFR stays the same (through the PCM's ability to compensate), if the engine is seeing X amount of additional airflow per combustion cycle then power will be increased by Y amount. Theres no argument however that a tune helps alot, because of the increased VE (by adding timing)
Thats funny because the LX guys have dyno proof that says it is. And not only that, quite a few guys have seen power LOSSES from larger TBs.
I plan to reprove it as soon as I can get my hands on a stock TB. I run a 90mm Arrington, and if I see a gain or the same power when putting on a stocker, the argument is over, because my motor requires more air then any other N/A Stock displacement Hemi out there. If it can't pull a larger TB, none can.
I don't make claims without being able to prove them, so thats what I'm doing. I'm gonna see if I can borrow some ported ones from different companies too.
I'm gonna run my truck, as is, first. Then I'll swap on a stocker, and run it again. I'll leave the stocker on for about a week, then run it again. Then depending on what I can get my hands on, I'll either put on a ported unit or go back to my 90mm Arrington before another run.
I have TTDyno, so I can make as many runs as I want. Its not a chassis dyno, but its proven to be within 3% of my chassis dyno results, with similar graphs, and to be repeatable, so its good enough for this comparison.
^^^ How soon till this begins? Im always on the hunt for mods that equal power while being able to keep me in warranty (ill swap it for servicing). Looking forward to your results. If you're wrong you post it right?
I'm gonna post the results regardless of whether I'm right or wrong; Numbers and graphs.
I want to wait until I change my plugs and coils before I start though, because its running very poorly right now. I ordered them yesterday. The plugs are on 2 1/2 week backorder from Summit, so figure the beginning of September.
Don't forget, I have a fully built top end, so my results and a stock motors results will vary. I do think its safe to say though, that if my motor makes more power on a stock TB, then a stock motor will too.
There's a member on LXForums that just did a back to back dyno test of a few different sized TB's and cai combinations. He gained 10 HP and tq with the 100mm.
I'm at 500 with stock intake and tb, I will be installing the 100mm and ported intake later this week. I'll be back on the dyno once I get some data logged and the toon adjusted (if needed).
Mike, I don't have any immediate plans for my stock tb, I'd be happy to send it your way for testing then just send it back to me when done.
I don't see how the 100mm can even work. When Inertia opened up my manifold to 90mm it was right on the O-ring. How can you fit another 10mm without hitting it? Are they running the 100mm without opening the manifold? Or is it only 100 at the front and 90 at the back to increase velocity?
Most of the O-ring groove is gone to install it. I will get some pics and measurements tonight when I get the manifold and tb back (should be tonight).
Thanks. I actually just went through the thread on LX. He lost 10hp/10ft/lbs with the bigger TB before tuning. For whatever reason he went rich with it and had to adjust the AFR. That doesn't seem right. More air should lean it out, not fatten it up. Very strange.
I talked to a local dealer tonight, under an assumed name, told them of all my mods and just got real honest as far as so far this season I have at least 100 passes on the strip and that Ive got a service contract for oil changes. They are supposed to be calling me back tomorrow so we shall see. My point being in this is, Id rather be upfront as far as my 180* t-stat and CMR tune plus future mods such as TB intake and such. My simple statement was this, If I break it due to my mods and doing, then its easier for you guys to fix even if at my dime later. We shall see tomorrow!
No mods will void your warranty. SEMAs Bill of Rights protects us unless the mods directly cause a problem. Anybody who says otherwise is flat out WRONG.
It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong when your ride is fawked up and they wont fix it because you modded it and you must then hire an attorney to prove it wasn't your mods that did it. So yes they can do it, and you are the fool if you think it would work any other way than that!
You almost never need an attorney. I have never needed one and I've been modding for 15 years. Never had warranty service denied. The law is on your side, and they know it. You just have to let them know that you know it.
I'm at the dealer now, Johan Toon and tstat and they are good with it! I'm shocked. Last night talking to the writer he said no way but when I mentioned Magnuson Moss it all changed! Lol!
Did anyone ever dyno to prove theories on this one way or the other? I'm interested in a ported TB on a 5.7l but can get no definitive answer as to whether or not I will see permanent gains, and if there are gains, what to expect.
Did anyone ever dyno to prove theories on this one way or the other? I'm interested in a ported TB on a 5.7l but can get no definitive answer as to whether or not I will see permanent gains, and if there are gains, what to expect.
Dyno's can be just as biased/skewed as any review.
That being said, I had AMW5 do a dyno session but was inconclusive because of unrelated tuning/mechanical issues. I have DashHawk tests on another 5.7 indicating a faster 0-60 time.
I have doubts that a ported TB can do anything, as it is not the volume of air passing through it, but the velocity of the air that is more critical. If the TB sent in to have ported was not perfectlly clean, you cannot compare any results to a ported one, as you will absolutely feel a much better response with just a cleaned up one. The TB from Modern muscle referenced above has 5 angle CNC variable porting from 83-85 mm to preserve velocity at low speeds, and increase at high speeds, and is the only TB with proven Dyno HP and torque improvements across the entire RPM range, with no tune.
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