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  #109  
Old 01-02-2011, 07:30 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

Give the Toyota fanbois a break guys. Gotta admit, that Fabio guys is attractive.

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  #110  
Old 01-02-2011, 07:40 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Read the thread. There was nothing to win nor lose. There was no bet. Hmm...you just might be one of those guys I was just talking about. LOL
You talk up the 4Runner relentlessly, so what would make you buy a WK2?
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  #111  
Old 01-02-2011, 09:08 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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Originally Posted by GlowingGhoul View Post
You talk up the 4Runner relentlessly, so what would make you buy a WK2?
I've said over and over again that I don't like the new 4Runner body style. How is it that you claim to know so much about what I post, yet you missed all of those posts?
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  #112  
Old 01-03-2011, 10:01 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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Originally Posted by ccsp View Post
Nice ride. Are those FJ wheels on it?
Yeah, I had them as a second set of wheels. I actually like them better than the Sport wheels that came on my 4Runner.
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  #113  
Old 01-03-2011, 12:38 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
I've said over and over again that I don't like the new 4Runner body style. How is it that you claim to know so much about what I post, yet you missed all of those posts?
I am familiar with your statement regarding the WK2's appearance, I just see a complete absence of logic.

Rather than buy the 4Runner, which is the pinnacle of automobile manufacturing, flawless in execution and design, and a dealer experience guaranteed to give you an orgasm every time you go in for an oil change, you'd buy a poorly made, unreliable, less capable vehicle and top that off with an awful dealer experience becuase the body style of the WK2 is easier on the eyes?

If you believe what you say, then you have no business questioning my, or anyone else's intelligence.
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  #114  
Old 01-03-2011, 01:55 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

4Runner vs. WK2 is a tough call. I've had a 4Runner and a Cherokee in the past and loved both vehicles. However, in terms of reliability, there was no comparison. My 2004 4Runner had zero issues and my 1993 Grand Cherokee had many. Still, the WK2 has a definite edge on the new 4Runner when it comes to fit, finish, blend of luxury and off-road capability and, thus, value. They are not rebating the WK2 now, but Ally (Jeep financing) has just added some financing incentives that lowered APR on purchases. Plus, if you do your homework online, look at multiple dealer web sites and talk to their Internet salespeople, you'll find that some are dealing more aggressively on the purchase price and trade-in value. True, some are stonewalling because they believe they have the hot product, but there is a huge supply of WK2 right now. I'm still mulling a decision, but I like the WK2.
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  #115  
Old 01-03-2011, 02:32 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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Originally Posted by litespeedz View Post
The 4Runner didn't seem to be tied up in the massive quality problems Toyota had this summer, but that company had WAY to many.
The fall of Toyota's reliability can be (at least partially) attributed to 2 strategic initiatives:
1. Increase profitability per unit. One tactic to accomplishing this goal was to change parts sourcing criteria. Toyota used to heavily prefer companies that had a history of supplying durable components. The criteria was changed to prefer less expensive (cheaper) components.

2. Toyota wanted to be the #1 automobile manufacturer (in volume). To do this Toyota increased the breadth of their offerings (how many SUV models did Toyota offer in the early 2000s? 5? 7?) Each new model required its own set of engineers and Toyota simply ran out (of qualified engineers). This may have been the reason for the bad frame design in the FJ (pure speculation on my part).


After Toyota's failures last year (or was it 2009?) they replaced the CEO with someone named Toyoda (I believe his family founded Toyota) who vowed to restore Toyota's reputation for making high quality vehicles.

I think in a couple years, after Toyoda has a chance to shake things up, Toyota's reputation will be restored and they might be able to charge a premium for their vehicles, but I personally wouldn't pay a premium for today's Toyota offerings (designed and parts-sourced under the former regime).
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  #116  
Old 01-03-2011, 05:53 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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Originally Posted by GlowingGhoul View Post
I am familiar with your statement regarding the WK2's appearance, I just see a complete absence of logic.

Rather than buy the 4Runner, which is the pinnacle of automobile manufacturing, flawless in execution and design, and a dealer experience guaranteed to give you an orgasm every time you go in for an oil change, you'd buy a poorly made, unreliable, less capable vehicle and top that off with an awful dealer experience becuase the body style of the WK2 is easier on the eyes?

If you believe what you say, then you have no business questioning my, or anyone else's intelligence.
Let me help you with your logic:

1- Styling is very important to me. If I don't like the way a vehicle looks, then I don't want to buy it, period.

2- Never said or claimed the 4Runner is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Is it a solid vehicle? Yup, I have 1st hand experience backing up my opinion.

3- Never said that the WK2 was poorly made or unreliable. Is it a solid vehicle? I dunno...and that's why I read this forum. I don't have any 1st had experience with the Grand Cherokee.

So add it all up and it's perfectly logical to anyone with any intelligence at all.
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  #117  
Old 01-03-2011, 05:55 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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Originally Posted by SUVfan View Post
4Runner vs. WK2 is a tough call. I've had a 4Runner and a Cherokee in the past and loved both vehicles. However, in terms of reliability, there was no comparison. My 2004 4Runner had zero issues and my 1993 Grand Cherokee had many. Still, the WK2 has a definite edge on the new 4Runner when it comes to fit, finish, blend of luxury and off-road capability and, thus, value. They are not rebating the WK2 now, but Ally (Jeep financing) has just added some financing incentives that lowered APR on purchases. Plus, if you do your homework online, look at multiple dealer web sites and talk to their Internet salespeople, you'll find that some are dealing more aggressively on the purchase price and trade-in value. True, some are stonewalling because they believe they have the hot product, but there is a huge supply of WK2 right now. I'm still mulling a decision, but I like the WK2.
Thanks for your post. I have similar sentiments. The WK2 kinda reminds me of a BMW X5, but with offroad capability and an American nameplate.
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  #118  
Old 01-03-2011, 06:05 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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Originally Posted by litespeedz View Post
.... The 4Runner didn't seem to be tied up in the massive quality problems Toyota had this summer, but that company had WAY to many. I am surprised nobody has mentioned that....
The 4Runner didn't suffer from any of the issues that plagued Toyota recently. There are a few reasons for that. First, the 4Runner was well into the 4th generation (which started in the 2003 model year and ended in the 2009 model year), so the platform was already well established and basically unchanged.

Also, all 4Runners are made in Japan. This has always been true, since the very first 4Runner was built. That may not seem important until you realize that the big gas pedal issue didn't affect any Japanese-made Toyotas. They used different suppliers for Japan & the U.S....and the U.S. supplier was the manufacturer of the faulty units. That's why the 4Runner (and other Japanese-made Toyotas) were not affected by any recalls.
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  #119  
Old 01-03-2011, 07:16 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

uh.....my wife has a Lexus IS250 X pack sport that was for SURE included in the recalls. It got a new gas pedal and all weather floor mats
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  #120  
Old 01-03-2011, 08:40 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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Originally Posted by ccsp View Post
4Runner has never been involved in any of these recent recalls. As far as Toyota recalls, most were actually found to be OPERATOR ERROR and that somehow got lost in the news media. The United States had a strategic and financial interest in destroying Toyotas name after Odumbo got the US Government into the used car buying (C4C) business and playing corporation with GM. The Tahara plant is know for the best quality anywhere and thats where the 4Runner is built, along with Lexus LS/Land Cruiser and Lexus LX...some of the best built vehicles in the world. The 4Runners past is proven to be bomb proof. Grand Cherokee has built some serious junk and YES they took a huge step forward. But it has to be proven.
Then just buy the Toyota and move along.......
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