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  #37  
Old 12-07-2010, 03:15 PM
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If you put one cent into consumer reports.....you're not as smart as I think you are. Cr has turned into a gossip rag like the nytimes etc.

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  #38  
Old 12-07-2010, 03:33 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

Actually, Consumer Reports seemed to be very impressed by the '11 Grand Cherokee. They loved its off-road and rock-climbing ability, and they said it was definitely the most luxurious Jeep yet. I believe they liked it's road test, too. They admitted that, because it's a new model, they could not predict its reliability. The only negative I recall had to do with emergency handling. Otherwise, they liked it.
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  #39  
Old 12-07-2010, 04:18 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

Consumer Reports couldn't predict a sunrise and know little about why cars and trucks are engineered and built the way they are.
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  #40  
Old 12-07-2010, 04:32 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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Originally Posted by SUVfan View Post
They admitted that, because it's a new model, they could not predict its reliability.
That hasn't stopped them from predicting reliability of other new models from other makers. A few years ago they admitted they had been giving Toyota products automatic "buy" ratings due to past results. While they may not be having past Chrysler history drag down the new Grand Cherokee, they do indeed use that halo effect when rating vehicles.

Usually, when most people think about reliability, we're thinking of 150K+ miles without needing major repairs. engine, transmission, and the like ought to be able to hit the six figure mark without breaking a sweat. Thing is, you never get enough of a sample size to judge that kind of thing until that model is out of production. You can judge reliability of some components (the W5A580 transmission, 5.7L Hemi engine, 545RFE transmission) due to the fact that they aren't new, but the vehicle as a whole will be rather different than it is now by the time we have any clue if the WK2 holds up in the long run. I bet $40K that it will.
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  #41  
Old 12-07-2010, 04:50 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

I agree that CR holds a manufacturer's track record against it when evaluating new models. However, I think the whole point of visiting a vehicle review database is to get all available information. There's only so much you can tell from a few months and a few thousand miles on the WK2, so buying one now is more of a risk because of that lack of info. However, based on historical performance, you can get a feel for a manufacturer's overall commitment to quality control. It seems like Toyota and Honda are more or less teacher's pets or golden boys to CR. Annoying though that might seem, those manufacturers have earned the benefit of the doubt with consistency over time. Unfortunately, the same is true with many manufacturers who have lost CR's confidence through poor past performance, which is difficult to overcome. I don't take CR as gospel, but there's no question that I always refer to it before making a large purchase (car, computer, television, etc.). More research usually helps limit your risk of making a bad buy.
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  #42  
Old 12-07-2010, 05:08 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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It seems like Toyota and Honda are more or less teacher's pets or golden boys to CR. Annoying though that might seem, those manufacturers have earned the benefit of the doubt with consistency over time.
While I'd agree that Honda and Toyota are often teacher's pets in this regard, I do take issue with the thought of ever taking a new vehicle's reliability for granted. Even the best screw it up. Honda has done incredible things with the Accord 4 cylinder and automatic transmission. That didn't stop them from royally borking it up with the transmission on their 6 cylinder a few years ago. Not to mention their issues with A/Cs not that long back (my mother's CR-V went through two of them in a couple months). And I *like* Hondas.

You just can't ever assume any new design is decent just because of where it came from. As we've seen, they start believing their own press and they'll slack off. Until that particular model has some kind of history, you just don't know. And that history takes years to form; unless you're buying used vehicles, you're always relying on the halo effect.
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  #43  
Old 12-07-2010, 05:20 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

Correct me please, but i recall this pentstar engine is a mercedes designed engine called the phoenix....... used in mercedes for years????????????????? as quoted by allpa.com, popular mechanics ....to mention a few regards pat..................
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Old 12-07-2010, 05:29 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

To add what Technosavant said, CR also depends on input from its readers for "reported problems" that may or may not mean a reliability issue like the kind that leaves you stranded. For example, if a CR subscriber hears an engine noise they don't understand and goes to the dealer, they may then indicate on a survey that "yes" they had a complaint about the engine and that adds to the CR black scoring records. It's a joke, IMHO, especially when they got caught with their shorts in the wind with the whole Toyota fiasco.
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Old 12-07-2010, 05:45 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

Good point. Some of CR's reliability "issues" are often petty things that wind up creating a false negative image of the car, at which point perception becomes reality for CR. Still, the bottom line questions for me are always (1) does it cost me money to fix? (2) does it cause me to be without my car frequently or for an extended period? and (3) will I get stranded in 10 degree weather?
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  #46  
Old 12-07-2010, 05:52 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

The best bet for reliability is to dutifully follow all vehicle maintenance schedules or you could end up like this:

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  #47  
Old 12-07-2010, 09:05 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

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Originally Posted by pattyboy View Post
Correct me please, but i recall this pentstar engine is a mercedes designed engine called the phoenix....... used in mercedes for years????????????????? as quoted by allpa.com, popular mechanics ....to mention a few regards pat..................
Nope. The Pentastar is a brand new engine. The WK2 is the first use of it in any vehicle. There were plans to use it in some Mercedes models, but I would be surprised of those are still going forward. The Pentastar is, however, mated to a Mercedes transmission right now (the W5A580).
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  #48  
Old 12-07-2010, 09:31 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

I'm getting a little tired of this entire "first year" conversation.

Manufacturers spend millions and cover countless miles designing, testing and evaluating new vehicles. The factory builds typically hundreds of pilot vehicles that are inspected for quality.

The first vehicle off the line should be as good as the model will get.

A lesser known FACT is that manufacturers often "de-content" the vehicle as it moves through its model cycle.
The search to save a penny never stops. The clip that holds the door panel on in a 2011 JGC may be made by manufacturer X, but in 2012 they may switch to manufacturer Y because they can do it $0.05 cheaper.
Extrapolate that same thinking across hundereds of different parts on the vehicle, and over time you end up with a product that is actually significantly different to the original.
Sure, in isolation changing one clip or part might not make a noticable difference, but several hundreds different parts can.

This effectively means that the highest quality the vehicle will often be is early on (although rarely if the vehicle is REALLY bad at release a noble manufacturer will endeavor to make it BETTER!) , when they want it to perform well and have the best quality within the timeframe that the motoring journalists will be testing and evaluating, and reporting.

Other features are often removed during the model cycle to save money. Something like a nice little rubber mat in a coin tray, or one of the hooks to carry ironed clothes on the rear hand grips...... that kind of thing.
Buyers won't notice it typically, but this is how the manufacturers maximise their profit during models.
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