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2011 Grand Cherokee - reliability

32K views 172 replies 49 participants last post by  Lingohocken 
#1 ·
I am carefully considering a purchase of a 2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo X - V6 and would really value some insight as to reliability. The new GC is clearly a striking, attractive car inside and out, and I understand that the redesign has been very deliberate, it incorporates luxury concepts from Mercedes Benz, and the quality control has been overseen by officials from Fiat. This is all very encouraging. However, I drove a '96 Grand Cherokee for 8 years and over 100 miles and had some reliability issues. It was a powerful V8 and I loved it but, to be fair, I only had 3 relatively easy years in it, with the rest involving frequent trips to the mechanic (radiator 3x, power steering 2x, serpentine belt snapped several times, other items) and numerous recalls (fuel gauge, wiper issue, brake issue). I've driven other cars known for reliability since '04 and have had much better luck and far less unexpected repair costs. Has the GC been reliable since then? What has been your experience with the 2011 GC thus far? What are your thoughts? Thanks for any input you can provide.
 
#2 ·
My opinion? You're taking a chance buying a 1st year model after a redesign. Jeep hasn't had the best history when it comes to reliability, which you obviously know first hand. Hell, I wouldn't even buy a 1st year model Toyota because of the potential reliability issues and bugs that need to be worked out on a new model.
 
#3 ·
to be honest...you CANT take the previous 4-5 years of Jeeps and compare them to this new Jeep or any new Jeep from now forward. It seems the quality, fit and finish have went way UPSCALE. IMO....I would take the chance....there really is no better option for the prrice and quality I have seen from the 2011.
 
#4 ·
to be honest...you CANT take the previous 4-5 years of Jeeps and compare them to this new Jeep or any new Jeep from now forward. It seems the quality, fit and finish have went way UPSCALE. IMO....I would take the chance....there really is no better option for the prrice and quality I have seen from the 2011.
Actually, he's talking about Jeeps from 15 years ago!

Except for Quadra lift and the Pentastar engine, none of the technology in the WK2 is "new", and in this case, that's a good thing since the major bugs have already been worked out of these systems.

The Hemi engine is 9 years old and the RFE545 transmission has been out for 12 years, in various revisions. Both of these are considered excellent, bulletproof designs.

All the scare talk about 1st year bugs is really overblown. The major systems are rock solid. There are about 60,000 of these vehicles on the road now, and while there have been scattered reports of problems, they are really few and far between.

Get the extended warranty and you won't have any worries.
 
#5 ·
Every new generation Jeep has made improvements in quality. I think that is still true. But like already said I would think twice before buying any first year vehicle.
I leased a first year jeep Grand Cherokee in 1999, the first 2 years it spent more time in the shop than on the road. I eventually replaced it with 2004 Grand Cherokee which was great, with very few problems!
 
#6 ·
I wouldnt buy a 1st model of any car after a redesign. Just asking for recalls & problems.
 
#11 ·
All of us who have leap into the WK2 did so with the knowledge there may be first edition bugs, especially with say the Quadra Lift or complex electronics.

At the end of the day, the obvious quality improvements and absolute no-brainer price-value made the decision to buy WK2 quite a bit easier. +1 to GG's comments above.

Meanwhile, buy the Chryco extended coverage and you're off.

Either that, or you can pay $10k-$30K more for a comparable vehicle. YMMV.
 
#13 ·
I used to be in the auto industry in my previous career and saw firsthand the difference between design flaws and manufacturing defects. There are no design defects from my picky perspective. Don't let the "first-year" factor put you off from buying an outstanding vehicle. Any vehicle is subject to a manufacturing defect or dealer prep problem. The WK2 is, IMHO, world class and priced so well that not only did I make it my first Jeep ever by buying one, but have no regrets or worries about it being a first year model (no problems in mine after 1500 miles). After a lot of research and looking the WK2 over (and under) for several weeks and many comparison test drives, it sold itself.

Having owned several first-year and next-to-last-year vehicles, there wasn't any difference to me in the number of problems that occur over the vehicle's service life; like I said, there is a difference between design defects and manufacturing defects regardless of first-year status. The new Grand Cherokee, even a first-year model, is going to be a solid, reliable vehicle over its service life because it is such a critically important vehicle for Chrysler and the fact that it was developed with Mercedes as a platform for their M-class; the Grand Cherokee truly "had to be done right" for the company's survival being a flagship vehicle. The same thing holds for the new Pentastar V6 that will find its way into many vehicles; it is such a critically important engine that it also "had to be done right".

What I would suggest is that if you are at all worried, buy only a vehicle that you find on the dealer lot so that you can make sure nothing is amiss...the old touch & sniff test, if you will. The V6 is a good design and backed by a proven transmission (the WA580 5spd). The Hemi, as mentioned, is even more proven and also backed by refined 5spd (the 545RFE, and actually it has 6spds). Peruse this forum before buying, and then compare what you find to forums for other vehicles you are comparing; the grand Cherokee is unequaled for the amount of performance, purpose, and pleasant lines for the price. JeepGarage is an excellent place to help you answer all your concerns. Best of luck in your search/purchase!
 
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#15 ·
I used to be in the auto industry in my previous career and saw firsthand the difference between design flaws and manufacturing defects. There are no design defects from my picky perspective.
I've also worked in the auto industry, on the repair end as a tech. Unfortunately, most "design defects" aren't things that are visible. Very rarely can you actually "see" them. They just surface as miles start to accumulate. If it were easy to see them, then manufacturers would be able to eliminate virtually all of them before the first new vehicle is sold to the public. Manufacturers do try their best by logging hundreds of thousands of test miles before releasing a new or redesigned vehicle. People who buy first year vehicles (I'm not bashing them, I'm just making a point here) are actually helping the manufacturers as a sort of "beta" tester. You can bet your lunch money that manufacturers pay very close attention to the repair history & feedback from owners of these first-year models.

Don't let the "first-year" factor put you off from buying an outstanding vehicle. Any vehicle is subject to a manufacturing defect or dealer prep problem. The WK2 is, IMHO, world class and priced so well that not only did I make it my first Jeep ever by buying one, but have no regrets or worries about it being a first year model (no problems in mine after 1500 miles). After a lot of research and looking the WK2 over (and under) for several weeks and many comparison test drives, it sold itself.
I'm glad you feel that way, and I certainly understand why someone who just purchased a first-year vehicle would want to feel good about his/her decision. I have a different perspective because I'm not (yet) a WK2 owner. I've learned over the years that I'd rather wait at least one model year (sometimes two, depending upon the vehicle in question) because there will be things corrected on the later vehicles that were learned from the early adopters. It happens across the board....it's not just a Jeep thing. If I decided to buy a first-year vehicle, I'd try to convince myself that I made a good decision too. And maybe that decision would be the right one for me. But like I said, I'm not willing to trade off the potential first year issues just to be the first guy on the block with a new vehicle.

Having owned several first-year and next-to-last-year vehicles, there wasn't any difference to me in the number of problems that occur over the vehicle's service life
I can't argue with your experiences. But I've had just the opposite experiences. My very first new car that I ever purchased was a first-year vehicle. Since then, I've only purchased one other first-year vehicle. The issues with those two vehicles were much greater than any of the other new vehicles I've purchased. But hey, that's just my own experience....so take it for what it's worth. Still though, despite our own personal experiences, we can't ignore the statistics. And if you take the time to research them, you'll see a clear trend that there are more issues with first -year vehicles than the same vehicles as they age. This should be obvious and logical to anyone.

... like I said, there is a difference between design defects and manufacturing defects regardless of first-year status. The new Grand Cherokee, even a first-year model, is going to be a solid, reliable vehicle over its service life because it is such a critically important vehicle for Chrysler and the fact that it was developed with Mercedes as a platform for their M-class; the Grand Cherokee truly "had to be done right" for the company's survival being a flagship vehicle. The same thing holds for the new Pentastar V6 that will find its way into many vehicles; it is such a critically important engine that it also "had to be done right".
I hope you're right. Yes, it is critical for the company. No doubt about it. Does that mean that actually did it right? Only time will tell. Maybe they did...

What I would suggest is that if you are at all worried, buy only a vehicle that you find on the dealer lot so that you can make sure nothing is amiss...the old touch & sniff test, if you will. The V6 is a good design and backed by a proven transmission (the WA580 5spd). The Hemi, as mentioned, is even more proven and also backed by refined 5spd (the 545RFE, and actually it has 6spds). Peruse this forum before buying, and then compare what you find to forums for other vehicles you are comparing; the grand Cherokee is unequaled for the amount of performance, purpose, and pleasant lines for the price. JeepGarage is an excellent place to help you answer all your concerns. Best of luck in your search/purchase!
 
#14 ·
With the V-6, the transmission is the Mercedes W5A580; a 15 year old design that's had all the bugs worked out by now. The only potention "year one issue" source would be the Quadra-Lift air suspension and the Pentastar engine.

The QL is a pretty simple system. If there's a problem, I would expect it could be solved relatively easily. While fixing problems could potentially cost a bit, we aren't talking major engine problem levels of cash.

For the engine, automakers in general have been putting a LOT of work into the design and manufacturing of these things. I would expect problems to be more of the "defective part" kind than "whoops, there isn't enough oil flow so the thing dies in 90,000 miles" kind. I'm not too worried.
 
#16 ·
I do not think it is much about reliability, the key here, is what kind of car have you owned in the past.

If you are coming from a lower tier manufacturer, the GC will feel and look luxurious.

But if you are coming from a BMW, Audi, you will feel a shock in terms of service, and Mickey mouse issues you will have with the car.

I think is more a matter of the dealers not used to handle certain type of customers, and such advanced car.

this is just my advise to everybody. Just lower your expectations and you will be happy (just like everything else in life for that matter)
 
#17 ·
I agree with this^^^

And another way to look at it is this-- If you are coming from a more reliable manufacturer (Honda, for example), and you're able to lower your expectations, then you'll probably be a happy camper.
 
#18 ·
With the Overland being a $46,000 truck, I do not feel that I should have to lower my expectations. Dealerships should be improving its service to match others in that price range. JMTC.
 
#21 ·
A comment on dealerships: there is a wide variance among every manufacturer, but the one I dealt with for purchase has an excellent and knowledgeable staff, including a few techs I spoke to during my vehicle prep. In contrast, some Audi, BMW and Mercedes dealers I've had to work with in the past (warranty work) I wouldn't trust to repair my lawn mower if I was spending my own money. Don't discount all Chrysler dealer service departments or their techs as less capable than the ones at high brow marque dealers.
 
#22 ·
I'll second this! We bought a Porsche last year and had a miserable experience with both the sales and service departments. Unfortunately there is only one dealer in town and we will never buy another make in which there is only one choice of dealers. Fortunately (knock on wood), our Cayman has been bullet proof, so we haven't had to go back to the 'lovely' dealership.

We only hope that we have a decent experience if/when we buy a WK2...
 
#24 ·
I see your point about expectations. I am currently driving a 2006 Acura MDX. I bought it a few years ago, certified pre-owned, and it already had about 50k miles on it. I've driven it a great deal since then, and it's been nearly perfect. All I have to do is routine maintenance. Before that, I had a Toyota 4Runner for 4 years that was also just about perfect. Consequently, my expectations for reliability might be unreasonable. I could tolerate a few minor fixes or quick trips to the dealer. My real concern is repair cost and being without my car while it's stuck in the shop. I've driven first year models before - my first car was a '93 Chrysler Concorde with the (then) newly designed cab-forward body style spearheaded by the immortal Lee Iacocca. Ironically, that was also a time at which the manufacturer needed to rescue itself. Anyway, the Concorde was a mess of electrical issues and it stalled frequently. Important considerations. I'm certainly grateful for this forum.
 
#27 ·
That's exactly what I'm talking about. If you're used to owning/driving ultra-reliable vehicles then you probably have high expectations on that front (reliability) and you might be disappointed if your next vehicle isn't as reliable as your last. If I decide to buy a WK2, it will not be until the 2012 models hit the streets. And even then, I'll try my best to keep my expectations reasonable. Personally, I don't expect perfection, but I don't want to be hit with a bunch of nagging little issues either. As a former Land Rover owner in the past, I know what it's like to have a vehicle in the shop more than my garage. But these days I'm driving an SUV that hasn't returned to the dealer one single time since the day that I drove it off the dealer's lot nearly seven years ago.
 
#26 ·
Well, reliability is just like opinions and to each their own. Some drive the cars and hardly notice a problem while others like me, will nick pick any thing that isn't perfect. Same goes with trips to the dealers, once a month is to many for me while others go once a week and don't see a problem in it.
 
#28 ·
I can completely relate to concerns over reliability. It took me four months to decide to buy this thing. I also scoured EVERY user review I could find on the net. It seemed like most of the bugs were worked out by early Fall.

Here is my two cents on this: First, you should know I have been a confirmed "Honda guy" for many years. I have owned three consecutive generations of Honda Accord's. I loved them to death. Two years ago I took a job with a car allowance so I went to an Acura TL. Many friends purchased a Honda product on my recommendation. All of those cars were VERY reliable: only needed fluids, gas, tires, and brakes. But on all of these cars I did find that the paint chipped way to easily, the leather wore quickly, and squeaks and rattles worsened over the life of each vehicle. I care for my vehicles meticulously, and I felt like they always aged to quickly. I would classify these vehicles as reliable but not durable (just my opinion).

I am now in a position where I need a vehicle that will move customers, friends, and things with ease. I had two cars but I don't have time to maintain two (one of them was an old beater SUV). I decided to consolidate to one for a while to simplify things. I looked primarily at crossovers and SUV's (Acura RDX, Nissan Murano, Acura MDX, Honda Pilot, Mazda CX-9, and the Jeep - on the recommendation of a friend). I ultimately ended up with the Jeep GC Overland. It took me four months of shopping around to narrow it to a Pilot or the Jeep. I was terrified of going from bulletproof cars I trusted to a newly re-designed Chrysler product. When I really looked at the value proposition of both cars I felt that the Jeep was hands down a better car. The only things Honda dealers were trying to sell me on were reliability and re-sale value (not features, design, and ingenuity). Incidentally, when it came time to trade in my Acura (a Honda product) they would not even give me KBB fair condition trade-in value for my car which was actually somewhere around clean/very good.

The last objection I had to overcome was my concerns over reliability. I scoured everything I could find on reliability. The thing that was clear to me is that today the difference between good reliability versus poor reliability is MUCH smaller than it was 10 years ago. Every auto manufacturer is making better cars.

Depending on how far into your buying experience you are you may not be aware of an extended warranty that is available to you. I found out about it on this forum. If you go to www.chryslerwarrantys.com they offer discounted Factory Warranty's. Look for the MaxCare and submit your name. With a discount code that is e-mailed to you they have a LIFETIME BUMPER TO BUMPER warranty for $1983. If you are concerned with reliability it will at least help keep your repair costs in check beyond the 100K mi powertrain warranty.

I will tell you I opted to get the V8 instead of the new V6 because of the transmission gearing, the MPG's were not THAT different, and I was concerned about unknowns with a new engine. There was lots of history available on the V8 and I felt like it was a solid engine/chassis combination. So from the perspective of a former Honda owner, I am very happy with my decision (but only 300 miles on the car so far so take it with a grain of salt). I think this car is designed way better than the Pilot or CX-9. Ultimately, you have to get to a place where you feel good about the purchase on your own. If you're cautious like me, take your time.

Good luck!
 
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#30 ·
I can completely relate to concerns over reliability. It took me four months to decide to buy this thing. I also scoured EVERY user review I could find on the net. It seemed like most of the bugs were worked out by early Fall.

Here is my two cents on this: First, you should know I have been a confirmed "Honda guy" for many years. I have owned three consecutive generations of Honda Accord's. I loved them to death. Two years ago I took a job with a car allowance so I went to an Acura TL. Many friends purchased a Honda product on my recommendation. All of those cars were VERY reliable: only needed fluids, gas, tires, and brakes. But on all of these cars I did find that the paint chipped way to easily, the leather wore quickly, and squeaks and rattles worsened over the life of each vehicle. I care for my vehicles meticulously, and I felt like they always aged to quickly. I would classify these vehicles as reliable but not durable (just my opinion).

I am now in a position where I need a vehicle that will move customers, friends, and things with ease. I had two cars but I don't have time to maintain two (one of them was an old beater SUV). I decided to consolidate to one for a while to simplify things. I looked primarily at crossovers and SUV's (Acura RDX, Nissan Murano, Acura MDX, Honda Pilot, Mazda CX-9, and the Jeep - on the recommendation of a friend). I ultimately ended up with the Jeep GC Overland. It took me four months of shopping around to narrow it to a Pilot or the Jeep. I was terrified of going from bulletproof cars I trusted to a newly re-designed Chrysler product. When I really looked at the value proposition of both cars I felt that the Jeep was hands down a better car. The only things Honda dealers were trying to sell me on were reliability and re-sale value (not features, design, and ingenuity). Incidentally, when it came time to trade in my Acura (a Honda product) they would not even give me KBB fair condition trade-in value for my car which was actually somewhere around clean/very good.

The last objection I had to overcome was my concerns over reliability. I scoured everything I could find on reliability. The thing that was clear to me is that today the difference between good reliability versus poor reliability is MUCH smaller than it was 10 years ago. Every auto manufacturer is making better cars.

Depending on how far into your buying experience you are you may not be aware of an extended warranty that is available to you. I found out about it on this forum. If you go to www.chryslerwarrantys.com they offer discounted Factory Warranty's. Look for the MaxCare and submit your name. With a discount code that is e-mailed to you they have a LIFETIME BUMPER TO BUMPER warranty for $1983. If you are concerned with reliability it will at least help keep your repair costs in check beyond the 100K mi powertrain warranty.

I will tell you I opted to get the V8 instead of the new V6 because of the transmission gearing, the MPG's were not THAT different, and I was concerned about unknowns with a new engine. There was lots of history available on the V8 and I felt like it was a solid engine/chassis combination. So from the perspective of a former Honda owner, I am very happy with my decision (but only 300 miles on the car so far so take it with a grain of salt). I think this car is designed way better than the Pilot or CX-9. Ultimately, you have to get to a place where you feel good about the purchase on your own. If you're cautious like me, take your time.

Good luck!
Superb post. Thanks for being part of our forum and sharing your rationale.

+ Rep friend! :thumbsup:
 
#29 ·
litespeedz, you will be a good person to talk to three years from now. It will be interesting to see how well your new GC lived up to your expectations. I have a similar story to yours, but I'm coming from (and still own) a 4Runner that has been absolutely bulletproof after 7 years of ownership. I'm nowhere near ready to get rid of my 4Runner, but we are considering adding another mid-size SUV to our family and I do have some reservations about buying a Jeep. I'm hoping that this new WK2 turns out to be one of the more reliable Jeep products, but only time will tell for sure.

FWIW, I will not even consider a vehicle that doesn't have serious capability in offroad situations because I actually need that capability on occasion. So something like a Pilot is out of the question. That leaves me with only a few choices- the Grand Cherokee, another 4Runner (but I hate the new styling, it's really ugly now), or maybe even a Nissan Xterra (which I've heard will soon be discontinued). Other than that, I'd have to move up in price to something like a Land Rover LR4 or Range Rover. There's just nothing else I can think of in a midsize SUV that has the capability I want/need besides those few vehicles.
 
#31 ·
As a former Land Rover owner in the past, I know what it's like to have a vehicle in the shop more than my garage.

FWIW, I will not even consider a vehicle that doesn't have serious capability in offroad situations because I actually need that capability on occasion. So something like a Pilot is out of the question. That leaves me with only a few choices- the Grand Cherokee, another 4Runner (but I hate the new styling, it's really ugly now), or maybe even a Nissan Xterra (which I've heard will soon be discontinued). Other than that, I'd have to move up in price to something like a Land Rover LR4 or Range Rover. There's just nothing else I can think of in a midsize SUV that has the capability I want/need besides those few vehicles.
So after a terrible experience with Land Rover, you're considering getting another, but you wouldn't touch a Jeep until it's been proven to be reliable over several years?

I've got to be honest with you, while you have some valid concerns about new model bugs (though way overblown in the case of the WK2, IMHO) it sounds like you don't really want one.

You'll probobly never feel comfortable with a GC, and perhaps be better off with one of the imports.
 
#33 ·
Oh, and just to make it perfectly clear, my Land Rover was an older Discovery (predecessor to the LR3) and those particular vehicles were known for some serious electrical issues. Mine had plenty of them for sure.

If for some reason I decided to buy another Land Rover in the future (which is extremely doubtful because I've been burned so badly in the past), I'd have to feel confident that the new model is much better in reliability than the older models. And that's exactly the same way I feel about buying a WK2. I'm in no hurry to buy a new SUV, so I can just sit on the sidelines and watch/listen/learn about this new model to see how it fares.

Reliability is a big thing for me...and I'm a former mechanic who still turns wrenches more as a hobby now. But like I said, once I've been burned with a problematic vehicle, I'd find it extremely hard to go back to that brand again. As much as I enjoy working on vehicles, there's only so much you can do before you need specialized equipment to repair modern vehicles.
 
#35 ·
MSCA, I'm not trying to start an argument or belittle you in any way, let me say that first and foremost. You say you are here to read and observe posts to determine whether or not you want to purchase a new WK2. It seems you make a lot of posts berateing the qaulity or trying to make large issues/questions about whether or not the vehicle is or will be reliable. Most of these comments center on it being a first year vehicle which is completely true. There are just now enough of these hitting the street to get reliable feedback as well as most of the late availability items just now coming on line. it will be a few more months before any patterns start to form, so more or less a waiting period.

Derogatory comments on Chryslers qaulity record and calling the Japanese brands "bullet Proof" are certainly lost on me. I've owned 9 Chrysler products since 1990, most were HD trucks.
I used to own and operate an excavating business and the trucks were used as support vehicles carrying fuel, oil, grease and tools etc. to support my Caterpillar machinery. The trucks were all Cummins diesel with 5 speed either in 2500 or 3500 versions. Needless to say these trucks were thuroughly used, hard and in extreme terrain. I also purchased a first year redesign Caravan in 1990 for my wife, Also a first year 300C for my mother after my father passed, and this is my second Jeep. Out of all of these only one has ever had to return to the dealer for anything after the sale. That's a rock solid reliability record for me. The Caravan went 300,000 miles with only one starter and one water pump. The trucks all exceeded 200,000 miles with no problems except one (I'll describe this later) not even a clutch was replaced in any of them. The Jeep before this was an '01 Cherokee that has 180,000 which I bought used to tow behind my motorhome. It's only problems were lack of maintenance by the previous owner, Worn out shocks, plugs, things like that.

The one problem I had with a truck was a first year Ram, 1994, 2500. This also addresses dealers and all makes have good and bad ones, foriegn and domestic. The first year five speeds had a defective retaining nut design for fifth gear. The nut would loosen and then fifth gear would start to whine. This happened to mine, I also read about it on the Turbo diesel registry forum.

I went to my dealer and the tech confirmed the problem after a quick test drive. I told the service manager it was my work truck and I couldn't have it down for long. He ordered a complete "new" transmission built after the Fix was put in place. The dealer called me the day the new unit came in and asked me to bring the truck by the next morning at 7. I left the truck with him and at 10:30a.m. he called and said my truck was ready for pick up with the new unit, and this was a diesel 4X4. I couldn't ask for better service from anyone.

I also worked as a certified mechanic when I was in my early twenties. What I learned was no matter what the make, certain vehicles will have numerous problems while hundreds of others just like it will experience none. I've owned one Toyota which was a horrible vehicle (Seqouia) and I tried to like it and give it a chance. Horrible fuel mileage compared with the GMC Denali it replaced and the Toyota was 2 wheel drive while the GMC was 4x4. Cheap, cheesy interior, and a vibration at 50mph they never got out of it even after 3 sets of tires, a drive shaft and several other things. I finally traded it off in disgust for an "09 Charger Daytona which is 100% trouble free and a much nicer vehicle inside.

The "being the first on the block to have one" comment is also lost on me. With the track record I've had with Chrysler vehicles I had no worries with this Jeep. It was time to upgrade to something larger than the Cherokee for vacation duty and a daily driver. I could care less what other people think, I buy what I like and drive it. I usually drive my personal vehicles ten years so I don't worry about resale value much either.

Like I said I'm not trying to start a flame. If your looking for info on the unit though, try listening or being positive rather than bringing up scare type comments and concerns. You haven't had experience with a WK2 so it's mostly opinion when you say your looking for facts. What I posted are factual experiences with chryco products over 16 years just like your factual experience with a Toyota.

Different people, different vehicle, different experiences. To each his own.
 
#36 · (Edited)
MSCA, I'm not trying to start an argument or belittle you in any way, let me say that first and foremost. You say you are here to read and observe posts to determine whether or not you want to purchase a new WK2. It seems you make a lot of posts berateing the qaulity or trying to make large issues/questions about whether or not the vehicle is or will be reliable. Most of these comments center on it being a first year vehicle which is completely true.
Yes, and I've also said that I wouldn't buy a first-year vehicle from ANY manufacturer. Not even the ones I consider to be "bulletproof". That's just something that comes from my experiences over the years.

There are just now enough of these hitting the street to get reliable feedback as well as most of the late availability items just now coming on line. it will be a few more months before any patterns start to form, so more or less a waiting period.
Exactly. As I said, time will tell. But the more cautious among us will wait a minimum of a model year to determine patterns. And factory fixes for even minor issues can lag way behind what many people expect, unfortunately. I'm a firm believer that every vehicle improves as the model ages. Often the best of the bunch are last-year models, right before a new generation debuts. The problem there is not many people want to buy a new vehicle that will be the "old" body style in less than a year.

Derogatory comments on Chryslers qaulity record and calling the Japanese brands "bullet Proof" are certainly lost on me. I've owned 9 Chrysler products since 1990, most were HD trucks.
I don't see any derogatory comments. But at the same time, we all speak based upon our experiences. And I've owned several foreign and domestic vehicles over the years. American, German, Japanese, English, etc... From my own experiences, there's a big difference is reliability when I compare Japanese vehicles to the others. That's not a derogatory comment, it's just what I've experienced.

I used to own and operate an excavating business and the trucks were used as support vehicles carrying fuel, oil, grease and tools etc. to support my Caterpillar machinery. The trucks were all Cummins diesel with 5 speed either in 2500 or 3500 versions. Needless to say these trucks were thuroughly used, hard and in extreme terrain. I also purchased a first year redesign Caravan in 1990 for my wife, Also a first year 300C for my mother after my father passed, and this is my second Jeep. Out of all of these only one has ever had to return to the dealer for anything after the sale. That's a rock solid reliability record for me. The Caravan went 300,000 miles with only one starter and one water pump. The trucks all exceeded 200,000 miles with no problems except one (I'll describe this later) not even a clutch was replaced in any of them. The Jeep before this was an '01 Cherokee that has 180,000 which I bought used to tow behind my motorhome. It's only problems were lack of maintenance by the previous owner, Worn out shocks, plugs, things like that.
Well, those diesel engines are known for their durablility/longevity, no doubt about it. As for the other vehicles you mentioned, I think that's great. I wish I saw more people saying the same thing. It's good for the brand in general.

The one problem I had with a truck was a first year Ram, 1994, 2500. This also addresses dealers and all makes have good and bad ones, foriegn and domestic. The first year five speeds had a defective retaining nut design for fifth gear. The nut would loosen and then fifth gear would start to whine. This happened to mine, I also read about it on the Turbo diesel registry forum.

I went to my dealer and the tech confirmed the problem after a quick test drive. I told the service manager it was my work truck and I couldn't have it down for long. He ordered a complete "new" transmission built after the Fix was put in place. The dealer called me the day the new unit came in and asked me to bring the truck by the next morning at 7. I left the truck with him and at 10:30a.m. he called and said my truck was ready for pick up with the new unit, and this was a diesel 4X4. I couldn't ask for better service from anyone.

I also worked as a certified mechanic when I was in my early twenties. What I learned was no matter what the make, certain vehicles will have numerous problems while hundreds of others just like it will experience none. I've owned one Toyota which was a horrible vehicle (Seqouia) and I tried to like it and give it a chance. Horrible fuel mileage compared with the GMC Denali it replaced and the Toyota was 2 wheel drive while the GMC was 4x4. Cheap, cheesy interior, and a vibration at 50mph they never got out of it even after 3 sets of tires, a drive shaft and several other things. I finally traded it off in disgust for an "09 Charger Daytona which is 100% trouble free and a much nicer vehicle inside.
Again, great experiences and thanks for sharing.

The "being the first on the block to have one" comment is also lost on me. With the track record I've had with Chrysler vehicles I had no worries with this Jeep. It was time to upgrade to something larger than the Cherokee for vacation duty and a daily driver. I could care less what other people think, I buy what I like and drive it. I usually drive my personal vehicles ten years so I don't worry about resale value much either.
I'm not saying it applies to you, but there are lots of people out there that have to be among the first to buy a newly redesigned vehicle. You know, the "first on the block" to have one. Somehow a lot of these people think that they can impress everyone because they have the all-new 2011 MysteryMobile. That's not to say that all people buying a first-year vehicle think the same way. I realize that lots of people buy a vehicle when they NEED (not just want) a new vehicle and if the timing just happens to work out that way then they buy it. Like I said in another thread, my Aunt just purchased a WK2. Her minivan was on its last leg and it was time to either dump a lot of money into it or buy a new car.

Like I said I'm not trying to start a flame. If your looking for info on the unit though, try listening or being positive rather than bringing up scare type comments and concerns. You haven't had experience with a WK2 so it's mostly opinion when you say your looking for facts. What I posted are factual experiences with chryco products over 16 years just like your factual experience with a Toyota.

Different people, different vehicle, different experiences. To each his own.
No flames at all....I understand exactly what you're saying. I am looking for information and I'll also share my experiences. You (or anyone else) shouldn't get offended when I bring up concerns about reliability. Lots of people share the same concerns, especially people who don't have a history with buying/owning Jeep products (and some that do!). Like many other people, I look at message forums like this one as a source of information, but it doesn't stop there. I also look at publications like Consumer Reports as a source of information. Facts are facts and opinions are opinions. It's my job to sort them out and determine which are which, especially when someone offers an opinion but portrays it as a fact. As for me, I don't have any facts as a Jeep owner and I've never pretended as such.
 
#37 ·
If you put one cent into consumer reports.....you're not as smart as I think you are. Cr has turned into a gossip rag like the nytimes etc.

Sent from my MB300 using Tapatalk
 
#50 · (Edited)
Consumer Reports gets their information from vehicle owners. So in a sense it's much like the information in this forum. I don't buy into any "sinister" motives from CR.

BTW, I'm not talking about their road tests, I'm talking about their reliability data.
 
#38 ·
Actually, Consumer Reports seemed to be very impressed by the '11 Grand Cherokee. They loved its off-road and rock-climbing ability, and they said it was definitely the most luxurious Jeep yet. I believe they liked it's road test, too. They admitted that, because it's a new model, they could not predict its reliability. The only negative I recall had to do with emergency handling. Otherwise, they liked it.
 
#40 ·
They admitted that, because it's a new model, they could not predict its reliability.
That hasn't stopped them from predicting reliability of other new models from other makers. A few years ago they admitted they had been giving Toyota products automatic "buy" ratings due to past results. While they may not be having past Chrysler history drag down the new Grand Cherokee, they do indeed use that halo effect when rating vehicles.

Usually, when most people think about reliability, we're thinking of 150K+ miles without needing major repairs. engine, transmission, and the like ought to be able to hit the six figure mark without breaking a sweat. Thing is, you never get enough of a sample size to judge that kind of thing until that model is out of production. You can judge reliability of some components (the W5A580 transmission, 5.7L Hemi engine, 545RFE transmission) due to the fact that they aren't new, but the vehicle as a whole will be rather different than it is now by the time we have any clue if the WK2 holds up in the long run. I bet $40K that it will.
 
#39 ·
Consumer Reports couldn't predict a sunrise and know little about why cars and trucks are engineered and built the way they are.
 
#41 ·
I agree that CR holds a manufacturer's track record against it when evaluating new models. However, I think the whole point of visiting a vehicle review database is to get all available information. There's only so much you can tell from a few months and a few thousand miles on the WK2, so buying one now is more of a risk because of that lack of info. However, based on historical performance, you can get a feel for a manufacturer's overall commitment to quality control. It seems like Toyota and Honda are more or less teacher's pets or golden boys to CR. Annoying though that might seem, those manufacturers have earned the benefit of the doubt with consistency over time. Unfortunately, the same is true with many manufacturers who have lost CR's confidence through poor past performance, which is difficult to overcome. I don't take CR as gospel, but there's no question that I always refer to it before making a large purchase (car, computer, television, etc.). More research usually helps limit your risk of making a bad buy.
 
#42 ·
It seems like Toyota and Honda are more or less teacher's pets or golden boys to CR. Annoying though that might seem, those manufacturers have earned the benefit of the doubt with consistency over time.
While I'd agree that Honda and Toyota are often teacher's pets in this regard, I do take issue with the thought of ever taking a new vehicle's reliability for granted. Even the best screw it up. Honda has done incredible things with the Accord 4 cylinder and automatic transmission. That didn't stop them from royally borking it up with the transmission on their 6 cylinder a few years ago. Not to mention their issues with A/Cs not that long back (my mother's CR-V went through two of them in a couple months). And I *like* Hondas.

You just can't ever assume any new design is decent just because of where it came from. As we've seen, they start believing their own press and they'll slack off. Until that particular model has some kind of history, you just don't know. And that history takes years to form; unless you're buying used vehicles, you're always relying on the halo effect.
 
#47 ·
Nope. The Pentastar is a brand new engine. The WK2 is the first use of it in any vehicle. There were plans to use it in some Mercedes models, but I would be surprised of those are still going forward. The Pentastar is, however, mated to a Mercedes transmission right now (the W5A580).
 
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