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  #121  
Old 01-16-2011, 10:45 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by Bmwister View Post
Let me put this another way: I would eagerly wager that MY particular 2011 JGC 4x4 Hemi will show it's tail lights to the new 4x4 Explorer from a dead stop or rolling start all the way to 100mph over and over regardless of tests results published by automotive writers who may or may not have an axe to grind.
Terrific. So you think you can beat an Explorer in a drag race. Congrats. You're the new stoplight king of the world.
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  #122  
Old 01-16-2011, 10:57 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

Maybe Bmwister's methods aren't the most precise, but I don't see the need to start flaming him. Also note that he ran the test multiple times and with a comparison vehicle. Though I don't recall the magazine times for the Audi.
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  #123  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:15 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
Maybe Bmwister's methods aren't the most precise, but I don't see the need to start flaming him. Also note that he ran the test multiple times and with a comparison vehicle. Though I don't recall the magazine times for the Audi.
The guy seems to think he has some kind of extraordinary qualifications to perform speed/'time-related tests on his GC. This entire debate started when I posted published figures from Motor Trend magazine. I didn't say that their results were the end-all of performance results for the new GC. I just said that their results were in line with other published figures I've read.

Then we hear about some home brewed stopwatch testing and how magazines may not be accurate, or how much variability there is when testing, or how journalists may have an axe to grind, etc... Ironically, the same can be said for some guy doing stopwatch testing. The only difference between stowatch testing and instrumented testing is that fact that one is inherently more accurate than the other. The rest of the BS applies to both methods.

I wouldn't really expect such a silly debate on an SUV forum....this is something I'd expect to read on a Lancer Evo forum or something... because in the end, not many people really care if a V8 Grand Cherokee can beat a V6 Explorer down the road.
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  #124  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:21 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

I hadn't realized there was some earlier history.

My suggestion would be to let readers sort this out for themselves without resorting to LOLs and character attacks. People can read the figures you've posted along with the sources, the figures he's posted along with the methods he used to get them, and make up their own minds.

I do agree that many just won't care that much. I recently bought a Ford Taurus X AWD, a predecessor to the Explorer with a similar drivetrain but less curb weight, and rarely use anywhere near WOT. I'm much more concerned that fuel economy is worse than I expected, about 16.5 around town and about 20 on the highway.

This said, I suspect that the Jeep's weakness is low speed acceleration, because of the already discussed five-speed automatic and its taller first gear. When passing at highway speeds, etc., the Jeep with the V8 is probably much quicker than the Explorer.
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  #125  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:23 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

that is where you are wrong. Most people do care......on here.....

its just a discussion on a web forum...and a very good one. No need to flame or start your usual name calling
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  #126  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:55 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
that is where you are wrong. Most people do care......on here.....
You think most people here care about being faster than a V6 Explorer? I seriously doubt it. Maybe a few people care, but I doubt most people do. I just don't see a lot of drag racing threads in the WK2 forum.

The funny thing to me is that anyone is even comparing the acceleration of a V8 Grand Cherokee to a V6 SUV in the first place. That's sad....and it just proves how much Jeep needs to put a better transmission behind the Pentastar. I really believe more gears with better ratios is all that's needed to make the Pentastar a more suitable engine to pull the heavy WK2. Still though, it will never be a drag racer. And it shouldn't be...
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  #127  
Old 01-16-2011, 12:00 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post

I do agree that many just won't care that much. I recently bought a Ford Taurus X AWD, a predecessor to the Explorer with a similar drivetrain but less curb weight, and rarely use anywhere near WOT.
Exactly. I think you're right on track. Most drivers spend very little time at WOT.

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This said, I suspect that the Jeep's weakness is low speed acceleration, because of the already discussed five-speed automatic and its taller first gear.
Again, I think you're right on the money. Gearing is a huge factor in the way any vehicle performs. The trend is towards a greater number of forward gears, which allows a wider range of ratios that can help both fuel economy AND performance.
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  #128  
Old 01-16-2011, 12:02 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

NO ONE is saying that want to make the wk2 a drag car...but owners and potential owners do want to know what kind of acceleration numbers any vehicle has for everyday driving and JUST for GENERAL info. If they didnt the above mentioned magazines, reveiwers etc. wouldnt do the acceleration tests. I bet you know the accelration numbers for your toyota...and not becasue your gonna race it down the 1/4 mile.....
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  #129  
Old 01-16-2011, 12:07 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

I wouldn't be surprised to see an 8-speed as soon as 2012 MY. I think the use of the 5-speed resulted from Chrysler's recent difficulties. Until they got their financial problems sorted out ZF probably wasn't willing to sign a supply agreement. Especially not after Chrysler stiffed Getrag with a new transmission plant halfway built.

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  #130  
Old 01-16-2011, 02:06 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

Sounds like an interesting box. Any idea why they didn't just go ahead with these plans, post-bankruptcy, instead of signing on with the ZF design?
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  #131  
Old 01-16-2011, 06:26 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
NO ONE is saying that want to make the wk2 a drag car...but owners and potential owners do want to know what kind of acceleration numbers any vehicle has for everyday driving and JUST for GENERAL info. If they didnt the above mentioned magazines, reveiwers etc. wouldnt do the acceleration tests. I bet you know the accelration numbers for your toyota...and not becasue your gonna race it down the 1/4 mile.....
Actually, I don't know the acceleration numbers for my 4Runner. And I've never tested it either. If I had to guess, it would probably be around 8 seconds 0-60 and maybe high 15's in the quarter mile. That's just a guess though and it doesn't matter to me if it's actually faster or slower than that.

As long as my 4Runner isn't underpowered, the actual numbers don't mean anything to me.
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  #132  
Old 01-16-2011, 06:31 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
The guy seems to think he has some kind of extraordinary qualifications to perform speed/'time-related tests on his GC. This entire debate started when I posted published figures from Motor Trend magazine. I didn't say that their results were the end-all of performance results for the new GC. I just said that their results were in line with other published figures I've read.
...and those other publications repeat what THEY heard and disclose as much; they did not do any instrumented testing. That's where you're argument falls short, and where you fail to admit MT used a press pool vehicle. Hence my retort. Next time you get a speeding ticket via laser or VASCAR, tell the LEO he's just some unprofessional guy with a laser or a stopwatch. Seriously, grow up. A half second is within expected performance tolerances anyway so it's not a big deal.
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