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  #133  
Old 01-16-2011, 06:35 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
As long as my 4Runner isn't underpowered, the actual numbers don't mean anything to me.
You don't own a Jeep? Why are you here pontificating anyway?
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  #134  
Old 01-16-2011, 06:41 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

I've yet to note any actual published test numbers for the Hemi that are much past low to mid 7 sec range. Can it do better? If it's broken in and you have a slightly hot one, sure. But it looks like the Explorer is generally a bit better at the drag strip than the GC. Still, I've seen pictures of the Explorer's interior- it looks like a Ford. Not bad, but very uncompetitive with the GC.

Furthermore, its better mileage doesn't mean more range- the GC has about a 25 gallon tank. The Explorer, a bit over 15 gallons according to the latest Car & Driver. That's going to mean a LOT more stopping on a long trip. The WK2 should be able to get right at 500 miles on a highway trip; the V-6 should be a bit more, the V-8 a shade less. The Explorer is going to be sucking fumes well before 400 miles.

I'm sure the new Explorer is a nice vehicle, but I'm glad I have a Grand Cherokee, and my purchasing decision would not have changed.
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  #135  
Old 01-16-2011, 06:49 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by Technosavant View Post
Furthermore, its better mileage doesn't mean more range- the GC has about a 25 gallon tank. The Explorer, a bit over 15 gallons according to the latest Car & Driver. That's going to mean a LOT more stopping on a long trip. The WK2 should be able to get right at 500 miles on a highway trip; the V-6 should be a bit more, the V-8 a shade less. The Explorer is going to be sucking fumes well before 400 miles.
15 gallons C&D are way off if they posted that. Ford.com 22.5 gallon tank. The explorer will at best make 430 miles or so before empty.
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  #136  
Old 01-16-2011, 07:09 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Actually, I don't know the acceleration numbers for my 4Runner. And I've never tested it either. If I had to guess, it would probably be around 8 seconds 0-60 and maybe high 15's in the quarter mile. That's just a guess though and it doesn't matter to me if it's actually faster or slower than that.

As long as my 4Runner isn't underpowered, the actual numbers don't mean anything to me.

LOL.....uh huh! As much as you claim to research vehicles before you buya nd you NEVER ran across the published numbers? LOL

whatever
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  #137  
Old 01-16-2011, 08:02 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

The best part of this discussion is how many Ford owners are bashing the new explorer, not only for the FWD joke 4X4 but also important details ford left off.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=299914
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  #138  
Old 01-16-2011, 08:03 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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15 gallons C&D are way off if they posted that. Ford.com 22.5 gallon tank. The explorer will at best make 430 miles or so before empty.
Did he mean miles per gallon rather than gallons?
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  #139  
Old 01-16-2011, 08:32 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Did he mean miles per gallon rather than gallons?
No, I remembered it saying something like a 15 gallon tank. I thought it was odd to put a tank that small in a vehicle like that.

But then, I was wondering why Ford put a 140mph speedometer in the thing (like Jeep did with the Grand Cherokee), when we're limited out at no more than 110mph. That's wasting a bunch of space that could have been used to make the analog speedometer more readable.
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:32 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by Bmwister View Post
...and those other publications repeat what THEY heard and disclose as much; they did not do any instrumented testing. That's where you're argument falls short, and where you fail to admit MT used a press pool vehicle. Hence my retort. Next time you get a speeding ticket via laser or VASCAR, tell the LEO he's just some unprofessional guy with a laser or a stopwatch. Seriously, grow up. A half second is within expected performance tolerances anyway so it's not a big deal.
You don't have the first clue what other publications I've read. So don't be so quick to say that they repeated anything from "other" publications.

I didn't fail to admit anything. I never denied that MT uses a press pool vehicle. In fact, it's common knowledge that most auto journalists use a press pool vehicle. So what?

And Leo? Yeah, he's a guy with a stopwatch. Sorry if you think more highly of him. I still put much more faith in instrumented testing.

One thing we agree upon? It's NOT a big deal. Correct.
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:34 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by Bmwister View Post
You don't own a Jeep? Why are you here pontificating anyway?
Owning a Jeep isn't required to join this forum, nor post in it.

And if you must know, I'm considering the purchase of a WK2, but not until the 2012 model year at the earliest. I don't believe in buying a first year vehicle.
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:36 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by Technosavant View Post
I've yet to note any actual published test numbers for the Hemi that are much past low to mid 7 sec range. Can it do better? If it's broken in and you have a slightly hot one, sure. But it looks like the Explorer is generally a bit better at the drag strip than the GC..
Be careful....you're getting close to twisting a bunch of panties into a knot.
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:37 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
LOL.....uh huh! As much as you claim to research vehicles before you buya nd you NEVER ran across the published numbers? LOL

whatever
Sure, I've read road tests on the 4Runner. Do I remember the accleration numbers? Nope. I just wasn't that interested in them. I could probably dig up some old road tests if you're that interested though...

And just in case you haven't noticed yet, my "research" involves much more owner feedback then hard numbers. In other words, someone giving real world feedback about the good/bad points of a vehicle mean much more to me than 0-60 numbers published in an auto rag.
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  #144  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:03 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Sure, I've read road tests on the 4Runner. Do I remember the accleration numbers? Nope. I just wasn't that interested in them. I could probably dig up some old road tests if you're that interested though...

And just in case you haven't noticed yet, my "research" involves much more owner feedback then hard numbers. In other words, someone giving real world feedback about the good/bad points of a vehicle mean much more to me than 0-60 numbers published in an auto rag.
This might be OT but applies to times the Explorer achieved too. Since you seem to be so much more versed in automotive testing, do please share with us the testing methods MT used in the 2011 JGC road test, and also if it isn't too much trouble, please enlighten us as to the methods other various publications used in their tests (the publications you have privy to but we may have not seen...many of us did extensive research too). Just a technical FYI, a stopwatch is an "instrument" and using that with a human-controlled operator I would trust over, for example, an iPhone app or an affordable over-the-counter accelerometer (the kind automotive writers sometimes use).

Here are some means and methods used by car magazines:
* Some employ a "5th wheel" that performs a calculated digital measurement, otherwise known to the layman as a digital stopwatch tied to a digital speedometer and computer. Depending on calibration, this method may allow for one to two foot roll-outs before timing begins. (I actually did testing this way many years ago as part of my job)

* Some perform several tests after developing the best technique, throw out the best and worst times and average the remainder as a representative number. Some just publish the best run.

* Some load the drivetrain or dump the clutch (i.e. Car&Driver), some do not (i.e. Edmunds) and get significantly different results for the same vehicle. An average of runs is then posted as the "official" time.

* Some use an SAE dyno with corrective factoring to adjust raw times and report a time they never actually physically achieved on the road. I know this is how some powertrain engineers calculate factory estimates that get published and repeated (ad nauseam) by the press in their "road test" reports.

Which did MT use on that particular test?
How full or empty was the fuel tank?
What gasoline was in the fuel tank?
What mode (Auto, Sport, Snow)?

May I suggest you wait until you possibly buy a JGC in 2012 and do your own tests with your instrument of choice BEFORE refuting mine? My friend/neighbor, whom I do respect, had a good laugh at your remarks. I can't wait to see what you say if I run a 1/4 mile this summer at one of the NHRA tracks and report results that might be better than what you read somewhere....can't wait.
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