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  #37  
Old 12-04-2010, 10:59 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by walterhudson View Post
Explorer will be cross shopped with Durango, Acadia, Traverse, Pilot, Highlander... not even remotely in the same class as the GC....whoever wrote this article has zero automobile cred
I disagree....the Explorer will definitely be cross-shopped with the Grand Cherokee. They are in the same price segment and they are similarly sized SUVs. And how can you think the Explorer will be cross-shopped with the Durango and not the Grand Cherokee? The new Durango is basically a rebadged Grand Cherokee.
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  #38  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:31 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
I don't think there is any set definition of a crossover SUV these days...there are so many variations that an argument can be made either way.

Actually I disagree. "Crossover" by definition means a car platform bulked up to SUV size.

If you wanted to say the Jeep and the Explorer are both "car-like" or "unibody" or even "road-tuned" I'd agree with you. But to say that the Jeep is a crossover is just wrong. The platform was designed from word one as an SUV platform. There are other vehicles on the platform, but they're SUVs too.

And this isn't just a matter of semantics. Many of the "crossover" SUVs are bulking up WAY past what was ever envisioned when the platform was designed. So you have problems with rigidity, with suspended-weight loads, and increasingly, with premature transmission and other drive-train wear.
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  #39  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:36 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

The only vehicle that I think you could class the GC with right now, at least in it's price segment, is Xterra or the Toyota 4runner, which has to be the most godawful ugliest SUV on the road.
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  #40  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:42 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
I disagree....the Explorer will definitely be cross-shopped with the Grand Cherokee. They are in the same price segment and they are similarly sized SUVs. And how can you think the Explorer will be cross-shopped with the Durango and not the Grand Cherokee? The new Durango is basically a rebadged Grand Cherokee.
The durango is larger/longer and had third row seating, just like the Explorer.
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  #41  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:55 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by bpmcgee View Post
Actually I disagree. "Crossover" by definition means a car platform bulked up to SUV size.
That may be your definition, but it's not the only definition. There's more than just the platform to consider. Many people feel that crossover status can be determined by a number of factors, including primary drivetrain configuration, unibody vs. body-on-frame, etc...

FWIW, the new GC is based upon the Mercedes ML platform (W164), which itself is a unibody platform that replaced the body-on-frame platform (W163) that was used on the older ML.

Quote:

If you wanted to say the Jeep and the Explorer are both "car-like" or "unibody" or even "road-tuned" I'd agree with you. But to say that the Jeep is a crossover is just wrong. The platform was designed from word one as an SUV platform. There are other vehicles on the platform, but they're SUVs too.
Again, if you think the platform itself is what defines a vehicle as a true SUV or a crossover, then I think you need to broaden your scope. In my opinion, "true" SUVs are truck-based. And to be truck-based, you have to have a boxed ladder frame. Using that logic, any SUV with a unibody chassis is a crossover. But like I said, there's not definitive line and people's opinions will vary.

Quote:

And this isn't just a matter of semantics. Many of the "crossover" SUVs are bulking up WAY past what was ever envisioned when the platform was designed. So you have problems with rigidity, with suspended-weight loads, and increasingly, with premature transmission and other drive-train wear.
So you're saying that some of the crossovers are basically under-engineered? They are being built on platforms that can't support their weight? Which vehicles are you talking about? I haven't heard any nightmare stories of crossovers that are having serious issues due to their "car" platforms. Enlighten me.
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  #42  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:58 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by PMD G8 View Post
The only vehicle that I think you could class the GC with right now, at least in it's price segment, is Xterra or the Toyota 4runner, which has to be the most godawful ugliest SUV on the road.

I don't think the Grand Cherokee is in the same class as either of those vehicles. Both the 4Runner and the Xterra are body-on-frame SUVs with live rear axles....more of the traditional "old school" SUV. And pricewise, the Xterra is significantly cheaper than both the 4Runner and the Grand Cherokee.
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  #43  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:01 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by PMD G8 View Post
The durango is larger/longer and had third row seating, just like the Explorer.
The new Durango is significantly smaller than the old Durango. Yes, it has available 3rd row seating, but other than that it's basically a rebadged Grand Cherokee. People will cross-shop the Grand Cherokee, Durango, and Explorer, no doubt about it.
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  #44  
Old 12-04-2010, 01:30 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

What I meant to say was that the Durango is longer than the Grand Cherokee making room for the third row.

EDIT:

Yeah, not really a difference in size or dimensions at all, at least on the outside, infact it weighs more. However it appears that interior dimensions are smaller. 15 cubic feet less behind the front row seats.

2009 Durango

Length: 200.8 in
Weight: 4,671 lbs
Wheelbase: 119.2 in
Width: 76 in

2011 Durango Specs:

Length: 199.8 in
Weight: RWD: 5176 lbs
Wheelbase: 119.8 in
Width: 75.8 in


2011 Grand Cherokee:

Length: 189.8 in
Weight: 4920 lbs
Wheelbase: 114.8 in
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  #45  
Old 12-04-2010, 03:30 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Again, if you think the platform itself is what defines a vehicle as a true SUV or a crossover, then I think you need to broaden your scope. In my opinion, "true" SUVs are truck-based. And to be truck-based, you have to have a boxed ladder frame. Using that logic, any SUV with a unibody chassis is a crossover. But like I said, there's not definitive line and people's opinions will vary.
No. I think it defines if it's a CROSSOVER or not. Crossover is not exclusive from SUV, there are crossover SUVs and non-crossover SUVs. I agree with you that truck based SUVs are the real deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
So you're saying that some of the crossovers are basically under-engineered? They are being built on platforms that can't support their weight? Which vehicles are you talking about? I haven't heard any nightmare stories of crossovers that are having serious issues due to their "car" platforms. Enlighten me.
Look at the repair history for used RAV4s. After a couple of years they're pretty horrible in all the drivetrain areas. I also have heard that the Honda Pilots are experiencing much higher rates of transmission failure than you would expect from Honda.

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Old 12-04-2010, 03:54 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

Why even compare the two? Completely different car if you ask me, would be like comparing apples with oranges. Other than both being cars or fruit, thats where the common line stops.
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  #47  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:12 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by bpmcgee View Post

Look at the repair history for used RAV4s. After a couple of years they're pretty horrible in all the drivetrain areas. I also have heard that the Honda Pilots are experiencing much higher rates of transmission failure than you would expect from Honda.

B
Where are you getting your repair history information? I'm just curious because I used to work as a Toyota Tech and the Rav4 is probably the more reliable Toyota, bar none. We used to joke around in the shop that nobody knew how to fix them because they were never in for anything other than oil changes.

Honda has had quite a few transmission issues dating all the way back to the early 2000's. I haven't heard of any issues in the last year or two on any of their models. But again, a transmission issue can occur on any vehicle, crossover or not. I don't see the connection....
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:14 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2011 Ford Explorer

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Originally Posted by KRY57L View Post
Why even compare the two? Completely different car if you ask me, would be like comparing apples with oranges. Other than both being cars or fruit, thats where the common line stops.
I think it is a fair comparison, simply because there will be buyers who consider both of them before purchasing one or the other. Remember, they are similar in size & price, and they both offer similar cargo room and 4wd.
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