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  #13  
Old 01-03-2010, 10:28 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

^^^^someone needs to avoid that situation....LOL
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:42 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

Maybe some of us are in the minority, but we've have been waiting for a Laredo with a Hemi. We plan on using it like a real Jeep, off paved roads and in marginal traction conditions. And with the new suspension being adjustable to terrian conditions why not have a locker in the front axle?
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:58 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

its not written in stone yet...as milous says he just cant find it in the literature. I just dont understand why they would remove it? It doesnt make sense...the QD2 already had it.....why go to the trouble to remove elsd? Right?
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  #16  
Old 01-07-2010, 05:22 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

Quote:
Originally Posted by nek121328 View Post
Maybe some of us are in the minority, but we've have been waiting for a Laredo with a Hemi. We plan on using it like a real Jeep, off paved roads and in marginal traction conditions. And with the new suspension being adjustable to terrian conditions why not have a locker in the front axle?

if you order straight from the factory and dont take whats on the lot you can get a Laredo w/ a HEMI - i had the option and my dumb ass opted for the Gen II 4.7 (cuz ya know - Flex Fuel is greener)
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Old 01-07-2010, 05:43 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milous View Post
I've been trying to get more information on the '11 drive systems but haven't found anything too detailed yet. Manuals and brochures are in their early stages of developement and there is not much other information to go on. Engineering documents I've seen clearly list only the rear as having a LS axle.

I'm sure that there is someone out there with far more off-road expertise in this area than what I can offer. However, from what I have seen over the years are endless comments and assumptions about how "capable" (or "uncapable") the Grand Cherokee is/might be in its different generations. And this always happens before a new gen is released and before anyone has taken one off-road for testing.

When the WK came out a lot of people panicked because it was switching to IFS. They thought it would "suck" off-road - which was really not the case. Long before the WK was launched I had information about the upcoming IFS change and posted it on my site. Not long afterwards I received a call from someone at Jeep, an exec that I had met at one of the national shows. He asked me if I would remove any reference to "IFS" as it was "sensitive" information, that they prefer word to get out closer to launch when reviews were to be released. I complied and "IFS" disappeared from anywhere I had mentioned it.

In order for the new WK to be successful Jeep had to go with what the majority of GC buyers and the market wants - and that is a premium on-road ride along with premium amenities. While the new WK may not be for hard-core off-roaders, they are in the very small minority. At least Jeep has not left the off-road market behind, the new WK will have respectable off-road capabilities. And of course they still build Wranglers, which is where Jeep's off-road focus is really at, some great changes and improvements are coming in the 2011 and 2012 Wrangler models.

I haven't done much off-roading in my own prior Jeep vehicles (WJ's), just never had the time. But if I were to ever get into it in a serious way, the solution would be simple - I'd buy a cheap used ZJ/WJ or Wrangler and take it to the hills and beat the crap out of it. I would never want to take a brand new $40-$50k vehicle and drive it in deep mud and rocks etc.

I'm not referring to anyone on this board, I haven't been here that long, but it seems that the people that complain/have complained the loudest about GC "capability" (WK1 and WK2) are those that have or had no plans to buy one, and if they did buy one would never even utilize the off-road capabilties, whatever level they come in at, to their fullest extent.

Finally, how does one define "capable" when it comes to "off-road"? Ask a thousand Jeeper's and you'll get a thousand different answers. It means something different to everyone. I am one who is glad that Jeep has offered "something for everyone". Every model has to have some sort of compromises to satisfy all of the different buyers out there, and from a marketing and engineering standpoint there also has to be compromises, one model of Jeep cannot be built to do everthing that everyone would want it to.
in whole most of this makes sense - here are my thoughts

it seems to be that in part the WK2 is improving the the capability in some areas, adjustable ride heights, but down grading in other areas, only rear LS. This just puzzles me and some may disagree that the adjustable ride height is an off road improvement.

But what everyone needs to realize is that different vehicles are designed for different types of off roading - thus the different opinions on what is capable and what is not.

for instance - my WK w/ a 4" super lift and 33's is purposed designed. Its an expedition style vehicle design to run long distances on the highway but still provide off road capability. I will NEVER have this truck door handle deep in mud nor will i be able to follow a buggy or built wrangler through a black diamond trail. but those buggies will NEVER keep up w/ me at 80, 90+ miles an hour on the highway. Nor will a ZJ sitting on 35's. It is a very well balanced and well rounded on/off road vehicle and it fits my purposes perfectly.

And it seems to me that Jeep is in fact catering to what the majority of Grand owners want in a vehicle as well they should.

you put it best when you say that jeep has something for everyone
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2010, 08:25 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

Regardless of full lockers or not...Doesn't the new traction control systems sense spinning in a wheel off the ground and apply the brakes to that wheel, which in turn sends the power to the wheel that is getting traction?
Quote:
As a hypothetical example, consider a 4,000 lb vehicle with 1,000 lbs supported by each wheel, encountering a small 4-inch mound under one wheel at low speed. That wheel and its diagonal opposite will be deflected upwards by 1 inch, while the other two will each droop by an inch. Truck and 4x4 springs are commonly rated at over 300 lb/inch; with such a spring at each wheel, one inch of droop will reduce wheel loading by 300 lbs, reducing available traction at that wheel by 30%. (With an open differential on the axle, traction is lost at both wheels). In this simplified model, a moderate 8 inch terrain irregularity would reduce available traction by 60%! The Classic Range Rover introduced the use of springs of about 150 lb/inch stiffness -- in our model this would reduce the traction loss to 15% for the 4 inch bump and 30% for the 8 inch bump.
The above example is oversimplified, but it illustrates the adverse effects of firm springs on off-road traction, even on moderate terrain. It explains the dogma that serious off-road vehicles must use "lockers" on the differentials to maintain traction. Lockers force both wheels to rotate at equal speed, transferring all the torque to whichever side has the grip. They therefore greatly increase stress on the drivetrain components, and have adverse side effects on steering control. The locker can suddenly transfer 100% torque to one wheel, breaking parts with notorious regularity.

Meanwhile, in case they do, yet another generation of Range Rover suspension innovation has now appeared in the Mk III Range Rover. This all-independent air suspension has even more travel than the solid axle one it replaces. In a major leap forward, the air springs are cross-linked (left to right) when off road, reducing the effective spring rate to near zero. This not only softens the ride but increases the ground contact force and traction considerably on a drooping wheel. It also makes the independent setup simulate the articulation motion of a beam axle, getting around the usual criticisms of reduced effective off-road clearance on uneven terrain that independent suspensions usually receive. Aside from these advantages, the independent suspension gives much improved ride and steering control over bumpy terrain.
The above quote was taken from a Range Rover site. Offroad prowess is well known with Range Rovers and they have independent suspensions.

So, in reality, what is everyone complaining about here? Advancement in technology and suspension? I'd say "don't knock it, till you try it"
I remember with the Toureg came out with its air suspension and no locker and they took it to MOAB.
http://4wheeldrive.about.com/cs/volk...a071803a_2.htm
It put up with everything they could throw at it.
And for the users that need more....It's a Jeep. There will be aftermarket parts to make you go where other's can't. And that is what makes Jeep.....JEEP! Right?


I also agree. If you're handle deep in mud often. Get a Wrangler!
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:50 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

I agree that it looks like Jeep is going to sell the modified ABS (new traction control) as Quadra Drive II.
But I doubt it will compare to lockers.
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:37 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

the traction control and limited slip are 2 different things designed for 2 different reasons.

traction control is for on road driving and helps to keep the vehicle stable and in control in panic situaitons

limited slip is for off road driving and provides traction to climb obsticles. traction control (currently ESP) is disabled in 4lo

unless this new system is designed differently
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:41 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

Also keep in mind that a "locker" is different than a limited slip differential (lsd or elsd if it's done electronically). Where a true locker will force both wheels (weather they be the left and right OR front and rear) to turn at the same speed a limited slip will allow a certain percentage of slip between said wheels. With a mechanical lsd,more power is actually fed to the wheels in a more consistant manner,crucial in an off-road situation. Typically because you are trying to carefully move a vehicle through or around an obstacle. When it's done electronically,the computer does apply some brake to the spinning wheel,but not until it senses the spin,often when the vehicle has already lost forward momentum, and then somewhat abruptly puts the power to the opposite wheel,sometimes causing it to lose traction as well. It's just the way they have to design it so it doesn't interfere with normal driving.
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:43 AM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

I doubt I will ever own one, but I think it's a bummer that the front isn't going to have some sort of LSD.
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  #23  
Old 01-13-2010, 03:08 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

Confirmed - No ELSD for the front...

More 2011 info to be posted soon, I have the full color list, pricing (!!!) and option package details .
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:33 PM
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Re: 2011 Grand Cherokee (WK2) Limited Slip Option

why would they remove the elsd?
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