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  #25  
Old 08-08-2011, 02:09 AM
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Re: 2011 vs. 2012 = 2011 is Winner

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Originally Posted by netcoolery View Post
Jeep still has work to do in the overall customer experience (as has been well-documented in this forum). A modest increase in the high-end model pricing isn't going to cost them customers - what will eventually make or break them is getting the dealerships to buy into modern standards for customer service.

My .02 of course
Couldn't agree more. Most foreign marques have decent dealership networks, while GM and Ford are ratcheting theirs up -- Mercedes, too, is further unifying dealer standards to strengthen brand identity. Maybe standout dealerships aren't part of FIAT's corporate DNA (any Euro JG contributors care to comment?). But with all the changes being made at Chrysler there still hasn't been so much as a single public mention made of plans to upgrade the buying and service experience.
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  #26  
Old 08-08-2011, 02:45 AM
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Re: 2011 vs. 2012 = 2011 is Winner

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Originally Posted by HEMInator View Post
Ok let's take a look at an example.

2009 JGC 4X4 Limited vs. 2010 JGC 4X4 Limited BOTH with 30,000 miles and identically equipped on KBB. I'll use the KBB Excellent value for Trade-In and also show Private Party

2009 Trade-In = $24,750
2010 Trade-In = $26,475
2009 Private Party = $26,750
2010 Private Party = $28,210

2010 Trade-In worth $1,725 more
2010 Private Party worth $1,460 more

The question here is whether the incentives on the 2009 vs. the 2010 were worth more than $1,725 if trading in or $1,460 going private party. If you finance you also have to take that into consideration.
As an outsider walking in on this conversation I must ask, with all your number crunching and obvious knowledge in the area... when a guy mentions resale value being different because one is a FIRST year production and the other is a SECOND year production, why did all the sudden his argument get this nonsence in return? He went from speaking about 1st year production having a stigma and likely the 2012s will be more desired in 5 years by the used car community over the 11s due to this "not all the bugs have been worked out the first year" theory MANY people operate by. At least do a KBB on an 05 and 06 wk (which still has NOTHING to do with actual market value btw and may or may not show this difference between first and 2nd year production vehicle).

Ultimately people can complain all they want about the price differences, but launching a new vehicle that is VERY different from the rest of their line, can you blame them for maybe dropping the price just to the comefort line or slightly below to make some sales on a new rig? I dont see how 1-2k dollars for a now established vehicle is so outlandish? I am sure there are some lots with 11's still if you want one... oh wait you dont... why not?
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  #27  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:22 AM
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Re: 2011 vs. 2012 = 2011 is Winner

Just ask yourself this question, it's now 2016, and you have a choice between an 11' with 35,000 miles on it and a 12' with the exact same mileage on it, but costs $1,500 more. You'd jump on the 12'?

And I don't think the OP was making this an "outlandish" claim as much as they were just bringing the math to the front to share the truth of it. I think an Overland is still a bargain at $50k when you look across the competition and compare pricing as well. But it is nice to know where the dollars are being spent. Personally, I hope the price does keep going up on these. All the 11' owners will only benefit from it as right now, it looks like they got the best "price", so as the popularity helps drive the prices up, so does the resale value in the used market. I wouldn't think any real value would be gained or lost unless the mid model refresh kills the first release. The 8 speed transmission coming in 2013 will make both the 11 and 12 suffer in resale equally if they also address the Hemi drivetrain as well. If not, then the Hemi owners will just continue, and the V6 owners will see the shift.
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  #28  
Old 08-08-2011, 11:23 AM
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Re: 2011 vs. 2012 = 2011 is Winner

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Originally Posted by Smooth1 View Post
Just ask yourself this question, it's now 2016, and you have a choice between an 11' with 35,000 miles on it and a 12' with the exact same mileage on it, but costs $1,500 more. You'd jump on the 12'?

And I don't think the OP was making this an "outlandish" claim as much as they were just bringing the math to the front to share the truth of it. I think an Overland is still a bargain at $50k when you look across the competition and compare pricing as well. But it is nice to know where the dollars are being spent. Personally, I hope the price does keep going up on these. All the 11' owners will only benefit from it as right now, it looks like they got the best "price", so as the popularity helps drive the prices up, so does the resale value in the used market. I wouldn't think any real value would be gained or lost unless the mid model refresh kills the first release. The 8 speed transmission coming in 2013 will make both the 11 and 12 suffer in resale equally if they also address the Hemi drivetrain as well. If not, then the Hemi owners will just continue, and the V6 owners will see the shift.
Not everyone will, but some will. That's why this world goes around. You just need one person to see the value in it.
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  #29  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:08 PM
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Re: 2011 vs. 2012 = 2011 is Winner

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Originally Posted by 2005JGC View Post
As an outsider walking in on this conversation I must ask, with all your number crunching and obvious knowledge in the area... when a guy mentions resale value being different because one is a FIRST year production and the other is a SECOND year production, why did all the sudden his argument get this nonsence in return? He went from speaking about 1st year production having a stigma and likely the 2012s will be more desired in 5 years by the used car community over the 11s due to this "not all the bugs have been worked out the first year" theory MANY people operate by. At least do a KBB on an 05 and 06 wk (which still has NOTHING to do with actual market value btw and may or may not show this difference between first and 2nd year production vehicle).

Ultimately people can complain all they want about the price differences, but launching a new vehicle that is VERY different from the rest of their line, can you blame them for maybe dropping the price just to the comefort line or slightly below to make some sales on a new rig? I dont see how 1-2k dollars for a now established vehicle is so outlandish? I am sure there are some lots with 11's still if you want one... oh wait you dont... why not?
If you read my post you'll see I also mention that I did this with a 2009 Dodge Ram Laramie that I own (first year production run of that new model) against a 2010 and the math still held. I'm not saying the JGC Overland is overpriced or not a bargain..quite the contrary.

Some people are taking this out of context so I appreciate the support given by others which is that I'm simply making a case for those on the fence between a 2011 and 2012 that it's the SAME vehicle with basically no changes so the math I've shown shows that the current deals are greater than the anticipated (key word..anticipated) depreciation and I looked at the two most recent years of the JGC (2009 and 2010) as well as the 2009/2010 Dodge Ram to give my argument some weight. Those of you ordering the 2012s..great enjoy them! I'm not coming down on you for doing so. As for me, yes I was ready to order a 2012 but now I'm looking across the country for a 2011 equipped exactly as my wife and I want since the difference in price isn't worth it to me for the same vehicle. Come September 6th, I would be very surprised if the incentives don't increase $500 to $1000 since the launch of the 2012s will officially occur on Sep 1st from Jeep. With that said, if I cannot find the exact vehicle I want, I will gladly order a 2012...I would just rather not spend the extra money for the same thing if I can help it that's all.
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  #30  
Old 08-09-2011, 06:35 AM
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Re: 2011 vs. 2012 = 2011 is Winner

Heminator,

With the news that the standard Overland does not include rear ELSD. 2011 is more of a deal and not just financially. Because you cannot get the 20" wheels with the rear ELSD unless you go for the Summit.

With that said, I am keeping my options at this point...

BTW anyone know if Quadra Drive II is that much superior to Quadra Trac II especially in heavy snow/icy conditions since it can allocate all power to the wheel that has traction?
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  #31  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:33 AM
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Where did you here that ELSD is not standard on the overland anymore? Is this confirmed?

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  #32  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:37 AM
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Re: 2011 vs. 2012 = 2011 is Winner

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Originally Posted by tibbs14 View Post
Where did you here that ELSD is not standard on the overland anymore? Is this confirmed?

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TRAIL RATED is a JOKE!

Also, I can confirm that my build sheet for 2012 Overland with V8 does not list Quadra Drive II or a mention of Rear ELSD.

Gotta get Offroad Package and I believe the V8 to get the Rear ELSD on the 2012 Overland
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  #33  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:48 AM
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Re: 2011 vs. 2012 = 2011 is Winner

Hey guys. Fairly new here and ordered a 2012 GC Overland (Black/Saddle) on Friday. Thanks for the heads up on the ELSD fiasco. Called my dealer and they are able to add the ORAII if I wanted since it's early enough but I am waiting to see what they can do to swap out the 18s for the 20s which is why I didn't order the package. I was going to add the skid plates later myself. Suffice it to say I am a little disappointed in Jeep since the ELSD has come as standard on all Overlands before. Sigh
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  #34  
Old 08-09-2011, 10:06 AM
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Re: 2011 vs. 2012 = 2011 is Winner

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Originally Posted by overlandguy View Post
Hey guys. Fairly new here and ordered a 2012 GC Overland (Black/Saddle) on Friday. Thanks for the heads up on the ELSD fiasco. Called my dealer and they are able to add the ORAII if I wanted since it's early enough but I am waiting to see what they can do to swap out the 18s for the 20s which is why I didn't order the package. I was going to add the skid plates later myself. Suffice it to say I am a little disappointed in Jeep since the ELSD has come as standard on all Overlands before. Sigh
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Originally Posted by sined240 View Post
Heminator,

With the news that the standard Overland does not include rear ELSD. 2011 is more of a deal and not just financially. Because you cannot get the 20" wheels with the rear ELSD unless you go for the Summit.

With that said, I am keeping my options at this point...

BTW anyone know if Quadra Drive II is that much superior to Quadra Trac II especially in heavy snow/icy conditions since it can allocate all power to the wheel that has traction?
Ok this is just more reason to get a 2011 now. You're right sined in that you'd have to buy the Summit to get 20" and the ELSD and the ELSD is a major want for most people. I can't for the life of me understand why Jeep decided to tie the ELSD with the ORAG package UNLESS they looked at their sales numbers last year and the sales of the ORAG II pacakge were much lower than expected (probably because of the requirement to get 18" vs. 20" without a credit for giving up the more expensive 20" wheels and tires in addition the crappy 'off road' tires that came with it). Perhapst hey decided to make the ELSD part of the ORAG II pacakge hoping to increase sales of that package....only thing I can think of because I agree with Brom that LOTS of people will be really upset to find out that they don't get the ELSD with their non-Summit Overlands WITOUT ordering the ORAG II...they probably won't find out until it's too late since that difference is not marketed at all.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:50 AM
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Re: 2011 vs. 2012 = 2011 is Winner

One more thing to note here are three window stickers. The first is a 2011 Overland no ORAG II. The second is a 2012 Overland no ORAG II and the third is a 2012 Overland with ORAG II. None mention a rear ELSD and they all have Quadra-Trac II as the functional 4WD feature and not Quadra-Drive II. Shouldnt the 2011 and the 2012 w/ORAG II at least list that it has QDII?

http://www.jeep.com/hostc/getWindowS...RR6GTXBC690402
http://www.jeep.com/hostc/getWindowS...RJFCT0CC111793
http://www.jeep.com/hostc/getWindowS...RJFCT4CC111795
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:57 AM
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Re: 2011 vs. 2012 = 2011 is Winner

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Originally Posted by overlandguy View Post
One more thing to note here are three window stickers. The first is a 2011 Overland no ORAG II. The second is a 2012 Overland no ORAG II and the third is a 2012 Overland with ORAG II. None mention a rear ELSD and they all have Quadra-Trac II as the functional 4WD feature and not Quadra-Drive II. Shouldnt the 2011 and the 2012 w/ORAG II at least list that it has QDII?

http://www.jeep.com/hostc/getWindowS...RR6GTXBC690402
http://www.jeep.com/hostc/getWindowS...RJFCT0CC111793
http://www.jeep.com/hostc/getWindowS...RJFCT4CC111795
Window stickers are not accurate. Most accurate is the build sheet. My non offroad 2012 overland has no mention of quadra drive or rear elsd.
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