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Great vehicle, love it!.. Would definitely purchase again! 218 60.06%
Good car. I like it so far. 64 17.63%
It's nice. I've had some early issues, but I'm happy. 49 13.50%
Eh.. Maybe a lil' underwhelming. But it's growing on me. 3 0.83%
It's ok. But it ain't nothing to write home about. 3 0.83%
Honestly, I'm kinda disappointed. Doesn't really live up to the hype. 17 4.68%
Those bums at JNAP need to ALL be fired! THIS THING IS F'N JUNK!!! 9 2.48%
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  #493  
Old 12-29-2013, 11:54 AM
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Re: 2014 GC OWNER'S Review

For those interested in a later build mine was made December 2, 2013, Hour: 06, Car Line: W, Summit Auburn/Brown Diesel

Since its a hot topic I'll touch on quality issues first. On the exterior I can find a few misaligned panels/gaps. These are mostly of the type that go unnoticed until you walk up to a car with a straight edge and a critical eye. One however was noticeable from across the street when I first saw it at delivery, the gas cap cover does not sit square with a bigger gap on top than on bottom. This one IMO should have been picked up by QA. Going back to the others I should point out that my new BMW which clocks in at twice the MSRP does also have a few misaligned panels/gaps. The thing about this is that I never noticed till I decided to get the jeep and reading about issues here got me to going over it with a critical eye looking for it. Up until then I had been completely happy and in my mind they all lined up perfectly. I suspect if the Jeeps were not coming with some grossly misaligned parts the rest of the lesser "got to look for them to find issues" would pass by largely unnoticed even as they did so for me with the BMW.

On the inside I have none of the issues I've seen mentioned such as the carpet hanging down in the footwells, the headliner not being fully pinned up, etc. The only thing I've noticed inside is that the center console lid will squeak if I put some weight on it. No I'm not fat.

Electrical/computer issues found so far is that the nav will not allow me to set north up after the latest uconnect update and the volume has become unresponsive after using apps sometimes. What happens in the latter case is I can turn the knob or use the wheel button to change volume and while I see the volume indicator in the top left of the screen moving up and down the volume does not change. This will survive a shut down and restart. Calling someone and making an in call volume change will get it to start working again. It does this with both an S4 and a Nexus 5 doing the phone part of the equation.

I have no issues with the driveline in any respect. The trans shifts flawlessly no matter the mode and the diesel is positively brilliant. I like how quiet it is yet they left some of the sound in so I can hear it and I think they nailed the compromise between the two. Even my wife likes it and she hates diesels. The combination of the two is match made in heaven. With 8 speeds available and the flexibility of the diesel it never fails to satisfy out on the road with seamless torque constantly available at the touch of the pedal. Home run on the drivetrain. Not just satisfied, very happy.

Flaws that could be fixed on the run and cheaply... Why is it I have to pick and choose between nav data when there is a menu bar running across the screen with several inches of wasted space since there are only two buttons on it? Why do I not have a menu I can bring up in the evic dedicated to towing on a vehicle that can pull north of 7k lbs? Say one that shows trans temp, oil temp, and egt. Considering it appears the truck side of the house has it in I would think it would be an easy add. Also instead of reindexing at startup why not just retain the index and check for changes? I dont buy cd's every day and the old index is going to be good nearly every time I start my car. Where are my auto locks? The keyless system is not being fully leveraged because it is not also locking the car when I get out. Unlocking is free, you need do nothing to unlock the car so it costs me nothing to always have it lock, there is no inconvenience. On the other hand as it is I must go out of my way to lock it when there is no need since it could simply lock itself. Once you have had a car with auto lock you will realize that without it the keyless system is not being fully leveraged and wonder why it isn't available as an option on every car.

Design choices I disagree with... The back seat room versus storage equation is in my opinion flawed. Only a few more inches available back there would turn it from a place an adult can ride in to one an adult can ride in comfortably. Big difference between the two and I would not have noticed or missed those couple inches of storage. Capacitive screens have been around a long time and if you want to go touch screen rather than using a controller ditch the resistive. While we're at it people are used to using smartphones now that respond near instantly. Like it or not that is becoming the bar that every gui now faces and should be able to jump. This one is not bad in most areas but can be poor in a few like adjusting map scale. I think you will have a hard time finding someone that would not have said "yes, spend a few more bucks per unit to give this thing the ram/cpu it needs to run smoothly throughout the gui". I would have made the seats just slightly softer. I'm used to the German stuff and they use seats that sometimes seem like plywood covered with leather. I like firm but these simply seem too firm for the type of vehicle, this is not a sports sedan. I wouldn't go much softer but I would go softer. Speaking of sports sedans on the summit I think you should be going with stiffer sway bars/increasing roll control. While no one is going to confuse it with the aforementioned sports sedan the model is not aimed at going off roading so there is no concern with losing compliance with terrain and it rolls more than most of its competition to no benefit. I have been considering going to the SRT sway bars but as you probably know increasing stiffness in the sways also increases the effective spring rate and the vehicle already rides pretty stiff so this is something that would be best addressed at the design level.

One thing every American car should lose... For Christs sake stop the honking of the horn. Spend what amounts to cents at an automakers buying power to put in a separate speaker to utilize for locking and unlocking. Every time the horn honks its an annoyance to me having had cars that do it the right way.

While I did not vote in the poll I will say that I'm happy with the car and quite satisfied. I knew most of what I've mentioned going in and assuming no major quality issues step in to dampen my ownership experience I expect to remain happy with the car. As what I heard a jeep engineer call a conquest buyer I feel that the jeep does compete straight up with the best in the market in some respects. In others not so much. At its price point and capabilities however its hard to match and managed to get me to buy an American car. That's a win for Jeep.
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  #494  
Old 12-29-2013, 12:15 PM
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My list of grievances, to-date:

'Service Trans Press Brake When Stopped Key Off Engine To Engage Park' error message - Shifter will not disengage from Drive, engine will not shut off, transmission feels like it is stuck in 4-Low, won't shift gears

Roof leaking above overhead console, water pouring out all over center console and dashboard, streaming down DS A-pillar (problem addressed twice)

Alarm goes off whenever doors are locked

Fuel door opens by itself

No-start, button pressed, dashboard acts like engine is running, engine does not start or even attempt to start

Headlights BADLY fogging, shorting out, motors seizing (replaced three times)

Cargo cover, trim around handle broken (replaced twice, neither time broken in my possession)

Adaptive cruise & collision avoidance trying to kill me

Headlights too sensitive to daylight - on/off

Dust in paint- rear DS door, tailgate

Lights on QuadraDrive/Lift staying on and draining battery

"air suspension system cooling down, please wait" error message

Blue smoke on start-up after parking for a long time or on incline

DS of radio bezel around vent is recessed (broken?)

Exhaust tips not in line with each other

Audio cuts out when streaming BT and you enter 'Controls' menu

When using BT, backup camera is jumpy and distorted

'Paddle shifters currently unavailable' error message

Trim over cargo area hanging on DS

Ride height control sticking in 'Entry/Exit Mode' at all speeds

Radio screen freezes

'Vehicle phone requires service' error message

Bolster trim scratch on drivers seat

Front left tweeter black, front right tan, grille patterns different

Center console misaligned in four places

Center console door scratched

DS backup sensor pushed in- lots of false alarms

Rear DS panel in cargo area wrong color and misaligned

Flaw in leather on PS front door by lock/unlock buttons

Adhesive on all wheel arches coming loose (have been reinstalled four times as of 11/29)

PS of grille loose (pushes in)
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  #495  
Old 12-29-2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STCjpr View Post
My list of grievances, to-date:

'Service Trans Press Brake When Stopped Key Off Engine To Engage Park' error message - Shifter will not disengage from Drive, engine will not shut off, transmission feels like it is stuck in 4-Low, won't shift gears

Roof leaking above overhead console, water pouring out all over center console and dashboard, streaming down DS A-pillar (problem addressed twice)

Alarm goes off whenever doors are locked

Fuel door opens by itself

No-start, button pressed, dashboard acts like engine is running, engine does not start or even attempt to start

Headlights BADLY fogging, shorting out, motors seizing (replaced three times)

Cargo cover, trim around handle broken (replaced twice, neither time broken in my possession)

Adaptive cruise & collision avoidance trying to kill me

Headlights too sensitive to daylight - on/off

Dust in paint- rear DS door, tailgate

Lights on QuadraDrive/Lift staying on and draining battery

"air suspension system cooling down, please wait" error message

Blue smoke on start-up after parking for a long time or on incline

DS of radio bezel around vent is recessed (broken?)

Exhaust tips not in line with each other

Audio cuts out when streaming BT and you enter 'Controls' menu

When using BT, backup camera is jumpy and distorted

'Paddle shifters currently unavailable' error message

Trim over cargo area hanging on DS

Ride height control sticking in 'Entry/Exit Mode' at all speeds

Radio screen freezes

'Vehicle phone requires service' error message

Bolster trim scratch on drivers seat

Front left tweeter black, front right tan, grille patterns different

Center console misaligned in four places

Center console door scratched

DS backup sensor pushed in- lots of false alarms

Rear DS panel in cargo area wrong color and misaligned

Flaw in leather on PS front door by lock/unlock buttons

Adhesive on all wheel arches coming loose (have been reinstalled four times as of 11/29)

PS of grille loose (pushes in)
Was it the very first off the line? Good God.
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  #496  
Old 12-29-2013, 12:30 PM
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Re: 2014 GC OWNER'S Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by STCjpr View Post
Among MANY other things, replaced the headlights three times @ $6k per pair.
First of all, didn't you have a different username before? Secondly, the price you're giving on the headlights is a complete fabrication by either you or someone else. The entire assembly, including all module parts RETAILS (for the premium, HID units) at $1120 each. That's retail, over the counter at the parts department. Cost is down in the $600 range each, warranty will pay in the $650-$700 range. So, for both, that would be (cost) $1200 per replacement for parts, warranty (to the dealership) $1400. End result in parts for three replacements is (cost) $3600 + labor (and labor is not much for these) or $4200 warranty. Kind of a far cry from the $18,000 you're claiming for just the headlights.

Look, I'm sorry for the issues you've had...seriously. But...either you need to stop exaggerating the costs here (and FYI, warranty receipts from dealerships do not include parts or labor cost for the customer to see. They read out as "$0.00" on the R.O. invoice given) or you need to question who is giving you these numbers a little more. If you had multiple issues with the vehicle, then you should do what you did...pursue action. But...getting on here and claiming the 3 (both side) headlamp replacement costs are 1/3 of the price of the vehicle is a little...outlandish, and it passes serious misinformation to others. For example, it may scare the crap out of people unnecessarily into thinking that if their headlights assemblies need replacement out of warranty it will cost them more than $6000. They're not cheap by any means, but they are not anywhere near THAT expensive.
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  #497  
Old 12-29-2013, 12:34 PM
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Re: 2014 GC OWNER'S Review

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Originally Posted by crabman View Post
One thing every American car should lose... For Christs sake stop the honking of the horn. Spend what amounts to cents at an automakers buying power to put in a separate speaker to utilize for locking and unlocking. Every time the horn honks its an annoyance to me having had cars that do it the right way.
At least I can help you with that. Go into your EVIC and you can turn off the "horn with lock and unlock" feature.
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  #498  
Old 12-29-2013, 12:38 PM
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Re: 2014 GC OWNER'S Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by STCjpr View Post
My list of grievances, to-date:

'Service Trans Press Brake When Stopped Key Off Engine To Engage Park' error message - Shifter will not disengage from Drive, engine will not shut off, transmission feels like it is stuck in 4-Low, won't shift gears

Roof leaking above overhead console, water pouring out all over center console and dashboard, streaming down DS A-pillar (problem addressed twice)

Alarm goes off whenever doors are locked

Fuel door opens by itself

No-start, button pressed, dashboard acts like engine is running, engine does not start or even attempt to start

Headlights BADLY fogging, shorting out, motors seizing (replaced three times)

Cargo cover, trim around handle broken (replaced twice, neither time broken in my possession)

Adaptive cruise & collision avoidance trying to kill me

Headlights too sensitive to daylight - on/off

Dust in paint- rear DS door, tailgate

Lights on QuadraDrive/Lift staying on and draining battery

"air suspension system cooling down, please wait" error message

Blue smoke on start-up after parking for a long time or on incline

DS of radio bezel around vent is recessed (broken?)

Exhaust tips not in line with each other

Audio cuts out when streaming BT and you enter 'Controls' menu

When using BT, backup camera is jumpy and distorted

'Paddle shifters currently unavailable' error message

Trim over cargo area hanging on DS

Ride height control sticking in 'Entry/Exit Mode' at all speeds

Radio screen freezes

'Vehicle phone requires service' error message

Bolster trim scratch on drivers seat

Front left tweeter black, front right tan, grille patterns different

Center console misaligned in four places

Center console door scratched

DS backup sensor pushed in- lots of false alarms

Rear DS panel in cargo area wrong color and misaligned

Flaw in leather on PS front door by lock/unlock buttons

Adhesive on all wheel arches coming loose (have been reinstalled four times as of 11/29)

PS of grille loose (pushes in)
Lemon it!! But remember, virtually every automaker out there has a few of these!!

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2011 GC Overland V-6
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2012 Ram 2500 Cummins, modded
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  #499  
Old 12-29-2013, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
First of all, didn't you have a different username before? Secondly, the price you're giving on the headlights is a complete fabrication by either you or someone else. The entire assembly, including all module parts RETAILS (for the premium, HID units) at $1120 each. That's retail, over the counter at the parts department. Cost is down in the $600 range each, warranty will pay in the $650-$700 range. So, for both, that would be (cost) $1200 per replacement for parts, warranty (to the dealership) $1400. End result in parts for three replacements is (cost) $3600 + labor (and labor is not much for these) or $4200 warranty. Kind of a far cry from the $18,000 you're claiming for just the headlights. Look, I'm sorry for the issues you've had...seriously. But...either you need to stop exaggerating the costs here (and FYI, warranty receipts from dealerships do not include parts or labor cost for the customer to see. They read out as "$0.00" on the R.O. invoice given) or you need to question who is giving you these numbers a little more. If you had multiple issues with the vehicle, then you should do what you did...pursue action. But...getting on here and claiming the 3 (both side) headlamp replacement costs are 1/3 of the price of the vehicle is a little...outlandish, and it passes serious misinformation to others. For example, it may scare the crap out of people unnecessarily into thinking that if their headlights assemblies need replacement out of warranty it will cost them more than $6000. They're not cheap by any means, but they are not anywhere near THAT expensive.
Price per pair is as per the dealership- I presume this is the 'installed' price, since labor is insane on these in the Summit and the SRT due the the flares needing to be removed.

And no, I'm new to the forum.
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  #500  
Old 12-29-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC4stroker View Post
Lemon it!! But remember, virtually every automaker out there has a few of these!!
Done... I've been expecting the buyback paperwork since mid-December.
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  #501  
Old 12-29-2013, 12:49 PM
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Been out of town for the last two weeks- neighbor just called and asked if I knew my alarm on the '14 has been going off in my garage every two minutes for the last week.

Methinks I should call ISG to find out where my paperwork is.
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Old 12-29-2013, 01:31 PM
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Re: 2014 GC OWNER'S Review

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Originally Posted by STCjpr View Post
Price per pair is as per the dealership- I presume this is the 'installed' price, since labor is insane on these in the Summit and the SRT due the the flares needing to be removed.

And no, I'm new to the forum.
Not even close to the installed price. You'd need $4600 in labor to meet your $6000 price to replace. That's roughly 40 hours of labor at nominal labor rates. To give you an idea about what you're suggesting, they pay around 8-10 hours warranty to replace the engine. I'll look it up in a bit, but I believe at warranty they pay around 1 or 2 hours for this repair at most.
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
Not even close to the installed price. You'd need $4600 in labor to meet your $6000 price to replace. That's roughly 40 hours of labor at nominal labor rates. To give you an idea about what you're suggesting, they pay around 8-10 hours warranty to replace the engine. I'll look it up in a bit, but I believe at warranty they pay around 1 or 2 hours for this repair at most.
Neat.

They're buying it back now and I will never touch another 2014, but that's great to know.
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  #504  
Old 12-29-2013, 02:13 PM
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Re: 2014 GC OWNER'S Review

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Originally Posted by NC4stroker View Post
At least I can help you with that. Go into your EVIC and you can turn off the "horn with lock and unlock" feature.
Thanks, went through the menus before I left the dealer as it was snowing pretty hard and I needed to be paying attention so I knew about it from the start. This is not an acceptable answer to me though because it makes my options insult or injury when it should be neither. I don't want to have to stand there and look at my car to make sure its locked when I get out. I want to be able to walk away and know from a nice mellow chime that while I was doing so the car has locked, not make little old ladies in the car two spots away loading groceries pee their pants or have to stand there and look.

Its something that almost everyone I know will complain about if you prompt them when they have gone from cars that have it to those that don't. Having the main horn honk is annoying. It says I don't care enough to install a separate speaker that would cost very little. Wiring and speaker all in probably less than a dollar when buying by the million as an automaker would buy such a speaker.

IMO where the Germans and others kill us in quality is not so much real quality itself and expensive materials but the perception of quality. I was one of the first people in the nation to get a C6 and when I got it there where many questions about quality, was it improved enough that a buyer of imports they hoped to snag not hate themselves for buying it? The thing is my wife at that time had a BMW that was almost exactly the same color. Looking at the paint with the two parked next to each other the quality was fairly even. They both had a little peel but nothing major, it really seemed similar and both were equally prone to getting rock chips. Get in and look at the dash. Both with the same soft touch materials that were then just coming out. Both got the same white haze from outgassing that the early soft touch materials had. Both smudged the same if you touched it. They both looked as if they could have come from the same factory. So in a lot of the big stuff it seemed to hold up well. Its all the little things where the Corvette fell down. I'll give you an example I still remember talking about over in Corvette land and it relates here and now. The door pocket on my wifes BMW had a little bit of felt like material in the bottom. It would slightly cushion something when you set it in there and acted to keep it from sliding around. No such piece could be found in the corvette pocket. Objects dropped in there hit hard plastic and slid around. Now that piece of material probably cost all of a penny. I'll be generous and go 3 cents if you want to cover installation. A person could add thirty such upgrades to a car and still not have increased the cars cost to build by one full dollar yet little things like this greatly impact our perception of quality in aggregate for the better or worse depending on which side of the coin you're on.

Look at the two cars I have now, get in my GC and drop something in the door pocket and I'm going to hear it hit hard plastic. As I drive I'm going to hear it sliding around on hard plastic. Get in my BMW and nope, its going to hit a fabric surface and stuff normally sits where you drop it. This is just one example among many. Lots of people think American automakers have to raise the costs of cars by thousands to improve their quality enough to compete with the imports and this is not entirely true. We could go a long way by spending just that dollar. This requires setting aside the notion that its ok to honk the horn (both actually and metaphorically) at customers. Its not ok, its says I'm not competitive with others who are doing it better.

Little things matter.
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