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View Poll Results: How pleased are you with the way your 8 Speed Transmission Works? (By Engine)
V6 - I am very happy with the way it shifts, one of the best I have owned. 26 15.76%
V6 - Mostly pleased, I turn off ECO or run in Sport to get best results. 38 23.03%
V6 - Not very happy, I don't find any of the driving modes good. 14 8.48%
V6 - Terrible, Shifts harsh a lot, I get jerks and lurches. 19 11.52%
V8 - I am very happy with the way it shifts, one of the best I have owned. 47 28.48%
V8 - Mostly pleased, I turn off ECO or run in Sport to get best results. 15 9.09%
V8 - Not very happy, I don't find any of the driving modes good. 3 1.82%
V8 - Terrible, Shifts harsh a lot, I get jerks and lurches. 3 1.82%
Voters: 165. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 07-26-2013, 01:50 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

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Originally Posted by dtrvm View Post
The poll is not scientific, but it is the best data available and disregarding owners point of view is dumb. Yes a scientific poll may show a smaller number of tranny issues like 10 to 20% instead of 1/3 as I stated prevoiusly, but all those numbers are very poor and would not convince some one to risk $40k on a V6
In actual statistical analysis, none of these numbers add up to more than a hill of beans. The entire poll is anecdotal, and should not be construed as anything else. Certainly not empirical evidence on which a decision to buy or not can be made. I believe the purpose of the poll is for members of this forum, who are mostly owners already, to have a gauge of other members experiences with these transmissions. The unhappiness of some owners is definitely justified, but the degree of the problem hasn't been specifically diagnosed to a particular root cause. That cause may be hardware or software, to be determined on a case by case examination. As for Mr. Demming and six sigma, that is a quantification that may or may not be particularly useful in this case. Being involved in production at General Electric for four decades, and being quite familiar with this metric, it's a known fact that, although a useful target, it is completely unattainable in many manufacturing scenarios. So I really don't believe this poll is an attempt to market the JGC, just an attempt to help forum members wrap their heads around this problem.
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  #62  
Old 07-26-2013, 02:09 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

I find the 8sp/HEMI combo smooth to the point that I rarely notice the shifting. Every now again I'll notice a downshift coming to a stop, but nothing objectionable.

I think part of that characteristic is these new transmissions stay locked up at much lower RPMs than slushboxes of old, and they stay locked up longer on deceleration allowing some engine breaking to occur.

Coming from driving manuals most of the time, I personally like these characteristics. I can see someone used to feeling no engine braking on deceleration or coasting being somewhat put off.
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  #63  
Old 07-26-2013, 02:49 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

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Originally Posted by weck View Post

I think part of that characteristic is these new transmissions stay locked up at much lower RPMs than slushboxes of old, and they stay locked up longer on deceleration allowing some engine breaking to occur.
Question, and hopefully this doesn't come off as being dumb. I agree there is more engine braking involved, but wouldn't that go against all the recent changes they have made to increase gas mileage? I imagine that increased use of engine braking would decrease gas mileage. Am I making an incorrect assumption?
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  #64  
Old 07-26-2013, 03:08 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

The way I understand it, basically when you're sitting at a light, engine at idle, the input shaft of the tranny (motor) is turning but it is decoupled from the transmission output via a viscous clutch pack. The slipping of this clutch pack results in heat (lost energy), and as you drive off, the clutch pack does not fully engage until a certain rpm, so you get some needed slippage, but also heat, and lost energy even while moving at low rpms.

Newer trannys lock up at muck lower RPMs to minimize this parasitic loss, but the flip side is you are not decoupled at low RPMs where things tend to get "lumpy".
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  #65  
Old 07-26-2013, 03:25 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

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Originally Posted by GCL2014 View Post
Question, and hopefully this doesn't come off as being dumb. I agree there is more engine braking involved, but wouldn't that go against all the recent changes they have made to increase gas mileage? I imagine that increased use of engine braking would decrease gas mileage. Am I making an incorrect assumption?
The way I see it is when the engine is slowing the vehicle, the vehicle is pushing the engine, so it shouldn't be using more gas.

Could be wrong, just my impression.
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  #66  
Old 07-26-2013, 03:47 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

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Originally Posted by nickm View Post
Has anyone driven an Audi or BMW 8spd ?. Just curious if they act the same way.
The 2013 BMW 5 series in my personal opinion is a tad noticeable on shifts, [but no unseemly clunking of course] moreso than the GC.
I suspect simple tuning for presumed driver preferences.

Are the folks with the clunking or jarring shifts using the wheel paddles a lot?

I played with them for a while, but honestly got bored soon compared to just leaving it in eco for normal driving or sport for uphills or twisty mountain roads.
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  #67  
Old 07-26-2013, 03:52 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

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Originally Posted by nickm View Post
Thanks I wanted to test drive the x5 but I think they are at least 15 grand overpriced. Or is that worth having a smooth trans.
The X5 is a differently aimed vehicle, although it is very nice and all that rot and tends not to be The Ultimate ****head Machine as much as the sedans, it still seems to qualify for a comment an Autoweek editor made about living in areas with a high BMW population not being that pleasant.
Possibly it compares more to the 2wd GCs or the 4wd street versions... but to me it is just aimed at a different buyer entirely.

The LR4 Land Rover is more of a competitor to the GC--although if Jeep steals sales from BMW, I won't cry myself to sleep much.
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  #68  
Old 07-26-2013, 04:05 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

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Originally Posted by weck View Post
I find the 8sp/HEMI combo smooth to the point that I rarely notice the shifting. Every now again I'll notice a downshift coming to a stop, but nothing objectionable.

I think part of that characteristic is these new transmissions stay locked up at much lower RPMs than slushboxes of old, and they stay locked up longer on deceleration allowing some engine breaking to occur.

Coming from driving manuals most of the time, I personally like these characteristics. I can see someone used to feeling no engine braking on deceleration or coasting being somewhat put off.
Probably. I drove nothing but 5 speed manuals for decades, and my prior Jeep was a ZJ auto where NOT clunking would have made me worry about it....

The ZFs in both Mopar and plain ZF variants also lock up their torque converters very very quickly in a bid to cut efficiency losses, and if the timing is off even just a bit on this you will feel this happen. The controls are electronic, which should lead itself to an update if enough people bug their dealers and Chrysler--plus maybe the next generation of Mopar 9 speeds on the same design will be better for the complaints.
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  #69  
Old 07-26-2013, 04:38 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
The way I see it is when the engine is slowing the vehicle, the vehicle is pushing the engine, so it shouldn't be using more gas.
Does anyone else have an opinion? I still would figure that the increase in RPMs requires additional fuel to essentially slow down the jeep.
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:01 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

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Originally Posted by jacko15 View Post
In actual statistical analysis, none of these numbers add up to more than a hill of beans. The entire poll is anecdotal, and should not be construed as anything else. Certainly not empirical evidence on which a decision to buy or not can be made. I believe the purpose of the poll is for members of this forum, who are mostly owners already, to have a gauge of other members experiences with these transmissions. The unhappiness of some owners is definitely justified, but the degree of the problem hasn't been specifically diagnosed to a particular root cause. That cause may be hardware or software, to be determined on a case by case examination. As for Mr. Demming and six sigma, that is a quantification that may or may not be particularly useful in this case. Being involved in production at General Electric for four decades, and being quite familiar with this metric, it's a known fact that, although a useful target, it is completely unattainable in many manufacturing scenarios. So I really don't believe this poll is an attempt to market the JGC, just an attempt to help forum members wrap their heads around this problem.
It is not scientific, but suggesting the poll is useless seems like denial of the very real problem imo.

Six sigma is not always obtainable. That is true, but it is a great goal and I was trying to contrast the current unacceptable state with one where every one is pleased with their vehicle.

I have not found many people diminishing the insights of Demming. Will is a smart guy with good knowledge, but no one should ever think they determine acceptable quality if consumers are indicating to the contrary.

The JGC is a wonderful driving SUV with a very serious issue with the tranny imo. It seems foolish for new buyers to risk buying one with the level of problems being reported imo. It just makes sense to emphasize fixing these issues rather than saying the polls are not good enough or the buyers do not understand the issues sufficiently enough like the "experts" do. The owners of these vehicles know enough to know they do not like a harsh or herky jerky ride as stated on various threads even if they are not expert enough to know how to fix it. There are plenty of alternative vehicles to buy with transmissions as smooth as butter.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:37 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

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Originally Posted by GCL2014 View Post
Does anyone else have an opinion? I still would figure that the increase in RPMs requires additional fuel to essentially slow down the jeep.
During engine braking, the engine is essentially just a big air pump. The ECU turns off fuel delivery since the throttle position is essentially closed.

I did some experimenting on the drive home. In Eco mode, it seems like the tranny torque converter stays locked more when on the brakes, rather than just letting off the gas while cruising, when it seems to decouple and coast more readily.

In sport mode, it clearly stays locked whether on or off the gas, regardless of if the brakes are being applied.
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  #72  
Old 07-26-2013, 09:33 PM
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Re: 2014 JGC Transmission Survey

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Originally Posted by dtrvm View Post
It is not scientific, but suggesting the poll is useless seems like denial of the very real problem imo.

Six sigma is not always obtainable. That is true, but it is a great goal and I was trying to contrast the current unacceptable state with one where every one is pleased with their vehicle.

I have not found many people diminishing the insights of Demming. Will is a smart guy with good knowledge, but no one should ever think they determine acceptable quality if consumers are indicating to the contrary.

The JGC is a wonderful driving SUV with a very serious issue with the tranny imo. It seems foolish for new buyers to risk buying one with the level of problems being reported imo. It just makes sense to emphasize fixing these issues rather than saying the polls are not good enough or the buyers do not understand the issues sufficiently enough like the "experts" do. The owners of these vehicles know enough to know they do not like a harsh or herky jerky ride as stated on various threads even if they are not expert enough to know how to fix it. There are plenty of alternative vehicles to buy with transmissions as smooth as butter.

If you take this poll and separate the two the V-8 does very well excellent I would say. This is a poll on an internet forum where people come to complain more than anything. So when you have close to 50 votes and only 3 are bad that's pretty darn good. Not only that, but your always going to have that 1 or 2 people that can't be satisfied these are people that just hate everything no matter what it is. The V-6 doesn't do all that bad, but most of those will probably be taken care of with a software update, except of course those one or two haters.
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