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  #37  
Old 10-03-2013, 09:09 PM
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Re: 2014 models - what's going on???

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Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post

And those saying the numbers on sites like Edmunds & KBB aren't good indicators haven't explained why other brands seem to show accurate data.

That's my question too. If the numbers are meaningless because of the sample size being too small or whatever other reason, then why isn't that true for all the other makes/models too? How is it that the Japanese makes (especially Honda & Toyota) seemingly get much more favorable results when people are people and they'll act the same way regardless of the car they own....
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  #38  
Old 10-03-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jacko15 View Post
But I would say that if the thought of buying a JGC causes you anxiety, then maybe you should look elsewhere.
Actually, I find that to be fairly sound advise.
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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Terrific. If I wanted advice from you on my purchasing decision, I'll ask you. Until then, I'll make up my own mind, thank you very much. Save the condescending attitude for someone else.
Ok. I'm confused. In a round about way, you where asking about reliability from the position of a buyer. If my expectation for reliability wasn't satisfied by available data and discussion on forums, I'd continue looking too.

BTW, I have a 14 GC Diesel on order and I've been waiting 8 months so I've read all the scary stuff and had second thoughts as well.

Whatever you choose, hopefully it will serve you well. An informed choice is a better choice.

bd
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  #39  
Old 10-03-2013, 09:34 PM
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Re: 2014 models - what's going on???

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Terrific. If I wanted advice from you on my purchasing decision, I'll ask you. Until then, I'll make up my own mind, thank you very much. Save the condescending attitude for someone else.
First of all I wasn't being condescending. Second, if you don't want to hear other peoples opinions, stay off of public forums. Third, for that bullshit remark, you are now on my ignore list. Now you won't have to put up with any advice from me.
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  #40  
Old 10-04-2013, 04:59 PM
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Re: 2014 models - what's going on???

............
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  #41  
Old 10-04-2013, 05:16 PM
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I have a 2014 overland love it no problems. Had jeeps for years. Do care what people say I love my care. There's good and bad in every thing. If you have to think that hard you don't really want it. Find something else.
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  #42  
Old 10-04-2013, 05:19 PM
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Re: 2014 models - what's going on???

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Originally Posted by jacko15 View Post
First of all I wasn't being condescending. Second, if you don't want to hear other peoples opinions, stay off of public forums. Third, for that bullshit remark, you are now on my ignore list. Now you won't have to put up with any advice from me.
If I calculated correctly your ignore list was already full. You know what that means?

You now have to take me off your list and listen (read) my advice.


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  #43  
Old 10-04-2013, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
That's my question too. If the numbers are meaningless because of the sample size being too small or whatever other reason, then why isn't that true for all the other makes/models too? How is it that the Japanese makes (especially Honda & Toyota) seemingly get much more favorable results when people are people and they'll act the same way regardless of the car they own....
Well, I'm not going to weigh in heavily about the statistical significance here aside from a couple of points that haven't been considered here. One is straightforward confirmation bias. For years people have had it in their heads that US manufacturers create an inferior product. As a result, the minute anything goes wrong they are "confirmed" in their suspicions and talk about it. The opposite effect happens with owners of brands that have been labeled "superior" in folklore for years. When a problem crops up there, people will tend to be much more "forgiving" and talk much less about it--figuring it was a one-off or "things happen."

I've seen this effect firsthand. I have had friends buy US makes and go completely haywire when a problem crops up. Yet, I've seen similar issues when they've owned non-US vehicles (the SAME individuals) and they are MUCH more mute about it--often times defending the issue as just "one of those things." One had a transmission failure on a Chrysler product and couldn't wait to warn everyone off of US "junk." His previous vehicle was a Toyota that suffered a head gasket failure at 5000 miles and his response was literally "these things happen."

Don't get me wrong--US manufacturers worked hard to earn this belief in inferior products. They messed up for years. But some of what I see now truly is a form of confirmation bias going on. Toyota, for example, has had huge, regular recall issues...but Chrysler gets all the attention. So on and so forth. It'll take time for all this to sort out.

After all, it took Toyota and other non-US manufacturers 20 years to be considered seriously and to remove their reputation as junk. Many of them were considered to be "throwaway" vehicles in the 60s and 70s. It was a good 20 years before people slowly got over that preconception and stopped seeing every issue as confirmation of it.
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  #44  
Old 10-04-2013, 06:42 PM
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Re: 2014 models - what's going on???

I'd agree with Peter-K. I had a 2004 Toyota 4Runner. Wow, oh what a feeling. Right off the bat the center EVIC would dim intermittenly and lose power. Dealer could not replicate so it was never fixed. Right after warranty ran out at 36,000 miles, the dash board instrument cluster failed. Just failed. How often does that happen? $700 to pull the dash and fix. 3 days in a rental. Oh well, these things happen---at least I was not stranded. I was making excuses for a Toyota. The radioCD failed. Factory single CD. This is not rocket sicence or over complicated Sirius/SM, 6 CD stacker, Blue tooth what have you---just s simple factory single CD player. Another $700 to replace. Then the transfer case started to leak. $1,400 to fix. OW! This is suppoed to be Toyota! Went on a road trip and tried to go over some snow. Go stuck so I put into low---would not go into 4Low. Tried to lock diffs. Diffs would not lock. Now I have heard that if you don't use the 4 low or lock diffs, they could seize from not being used. But this was supposed to be a Toyota! Oh what a feeling. I finally managed to rock myself out. Go home but not happy with Toyota. Then the rear bearings started going out as a grinding noise grew loder. $800 to repair one corner. So if one bearing starts to go, the other three will likely start failing soon too. I just spent $3,600 in 3 years to fix this supposedly wundercar Toyota. Oh what a feeling.

The vaunted Japanese cars are not what they used to be and US made cars are not as bad as they used to be. And our perceptions over emphasize US "junk" while minimizing perceived Japanese "quality". While we can talk statistics--the only thing an anguished owner knows is $40k-$45k wasted in a clunker and no talk can assuage his anger and disappointment.

Hope it works out for you.
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  #45  
Old 10-04-2013, 06:53 PM
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Re: 2014 models - what's going on???

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
If I calculated correctly your ignore list was already full. You know what that means?

You now have to take me off your list and listen (read) my advice.


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Bill, how could you say such a thing? My ears (eyes) are always open to your advice!
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  #46  
Old 10-04-2013, 08:17 PM
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[QUOTE="Peter_K;904268"] Well, I'm not going to weigh in heavily about the statistical significance here aside from a couple of points that haven't been considered here. One is straightforward confirmation bias.

Exactly. Nicely said, Peter.
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  #47  
Old 10-04-2013, 08:57 PM
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Re: 2014 models - what's going on???

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Terrific. If I wanted advice from you on my purchasing decision, I'll ask you. Until then, I'll make up my own mind, thank you very much. Save the condescending attitude for someone else.
Hey, welcome back MSCA! Still up to your usual dooshbaggery, eh?
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  #48  
Old 10-04-2013, 09:28 PM
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Re: 2014 models - what's going on???

Just wanted to say something positive on this thread. I have had our JGC Overland now for 3 months and 1,500 miles with zero problems. The transmission shifts fine, at least the way I drive it. Not all that different than my 11 JGC. So just want to say that some of us are very happy with our 14 JGC. Al
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