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2015 HA Lemon Tried to Kill Me

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2015
9K views 47 replies 18 participants last post by  amc2002 
#1 ·
I have a MY15 HA which I purchased Nov 30th. Now with just over 3,000 miles, the HA has been in service over 5 times. So far they have replaced the BCM, PCM, Power Distribution (fuse box) and the QL module which is under the driver seat.

The dealer has already mentioned that he could arrange a manufacture buyback for a new vehicle. Definitely will take advantage of this but am trying to hold off until the 17s come out. Swapping from a 15 to a 17 with a MSRP to MSRP credit is a dream come true.
Old issue getting worse. Since my previous post (3/26) my HA was in service about a month ago for a check engine light but other symptoms. All was great until this morning when I almost visited the big salvage yard in the sky.

I was driving @ 50mph during morning rush hour on a Chicago expressway when all of a sudden my HA stalled. Stuck in the middle lane, I finally got her restarted but was now in LIMP MODE and could only drive 15mph. Cars whizzing by on my left and on my right, and horns blaring from all directions, I desperately tried to crawl to the shoulder. As I was almost their, I heard an airhorn looked behind me and saw a semi locking his brakes and beginning to jack-knife. Luckily I made it past the shoulder and into the ditch; the semi regained control and missed me by inches. I drove another 20 minutes, at 15mph, to the dealer.

As the dealer has a Enterprise Rental right next door, they got me into a Suburban and I went off to work. This afternoon I received a call from FCA Enhanced Customer Care. After the usual scripted apologies, they said they will call the dealer and keep me updated on the repairs. I stated that the HA is a risk to me and my family and that I wanted them to take it back. The rep stated she would look into my request and I replied that I read up on the laws and it was my right.
The rep asked if I wanted the phone number for the arbitration company and I said that it wasn't necessary if FCA was willing handle this diplomatically. I was promised a call my Wednesday.

Now my dilemma... I don't know if I want a replacement GC or my money back to go to another brand??? When my 15 worked, I really enjoyed the vehicle; and remembering test-driving other brands, nothing else really compared (for the $$). Scanning the forum almost daily, I haven't really heard of other members having similar problems. So maybe its not the brand but only the Lemon Unit that I got stuck with.

If I stay with Jeep, should I get a MY16 or will the buyback process delay just long enough for the order banks for the 17s to open in July.

Any advice would be truly appreciated.
 

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#2 ·
As you know, on the internet you only hear the problems and complaints. There are a couple members currently going through buy back due to ending up with a lemon, but the vast majority seem to have trouble free vehicles that you couldn't pry them out of. I love mine. I know the experience you went through was frustrating but the law of averages says your next Jeep will be a ruby jewel. If you need any motivation, look through the forums of the other vehicles you are considering. Same problems, same complains, same percentage of lemons. Good luck to you with whatever you decide.
I'll let some 2016 owners weigh in on your 16 vs 17 question. I have a 2011.
 
#3 ·
It may well be a lemon but the law here is quite specific:

Illinois Attorney General - Lemon Law
In order to be covered by the Illinois Lemon Law, a vehicle must:

  • have a nonconformity that both substantially impairs the use , market value or safety of the vehicle and is not repairable by the dealer or manufacturer in at least four attempts for the same repair, or
  • be out of service for a total of 30 or more business days.
Has this been the case?

And were you traveling southbound on Carpenter Rd. / Central Ave. around 19:30 hrs of the evening at more than 15 mph? Your username, your car, and the car I saw and its license plate have a few common elements.

---

I've had repeated problems with the Active Cruise Control on my 14, radiator crapped out and started leaking once right as I returned from the dealer. The dealer offered a buy-back but regardless, I was going to lose about 1700 dollars, the difference between the car I got and the 2015 optioned exactly the same. In the end they fixed it properly.
 
#5 ·
It may well be a lemon but the law here is quite specific:

Illinois Attorney General - Lemon Law


Has this been the case?

And were you traveling southbound on Carpenter Rd. / Central Ave. around 19:30 hrs of the evening at more than 15 mph? Your username, your car, and the car I saw and its license plate have a few common elements.
I have not made it to 30 days yet but at lease 6 visits all Dx an Communication Errors. Service has replaced many parts (BCM, PCM ECM...) but nothing has helped. They have sent logs to FCA engineers and they cant figure out what is happening.

My car stalled on the Eden northbound.
 
#4 ·
Damn that's gotta be scary as shit to be stuck in a middle lane like that on a busy expressway. You are extremely lucky yourself or others did not get hurt or killed. It's gotta be a tough situation because it sounds like you truly love your Jeep, but I would imagine regaining trust in that vehicle is now going to be very difficult!!! I think the only way I could regain trust in that vehicle again is if the dealership 100% found the problem and fixed it...not one of those oh we couldn't find anything wrong and send you on your way. If that was the case I would get rid of the car...buy back or not. If they can find the problem and fix it I would give the car another chance, and maybe stay out of the middle lane for a while lol.
Fwiw, my 2015 has been a excellent vehicle!
 
#6 · (Edited)
Find a local zone manager (higher power than Customer Care) they have the power to get you out of that Jeep right away. Once they review your case it will be a no brainer.

I luckily found one in my territory who got me out of my 2014 and into a 2015. Typically when you start the sub of collateral process the customer is responsible for any monetary difference in MSRP. For example my 2015 was $1500 more than my 2014. That was nixed right off the bat. He also gave me navigation, a tow hitch, all weather mats and every service contract Jeep offers (maxcare lifetime - zero deductible, road hazard wheel/tire for 7yrs, 12 free oil changes).

Basically only cost me time and the headache of driving a rental for 6+ weeks and having to scan and copy multiple documents to get everything squared away.


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#38 ·
Find a local zone manager (higher power than Customer Care) they have the power to get you out of that Jeep right away. Once they review your case it will be a no brainer.
I had a very similar experience to OP. Jeep would die in traffic. Nothing will shake you like losing your faith in your vehicle to get you where you need to go, especially in traffic.

In my case, the local zone manager told the CHRYSLER rep, "he'll get a new vehicle over my dead body - this is a simple warranty claim - we'll keep fixing it until it's fixed," or something along those lines. I had to get a lawyer involved.

In NY at least, even though the law is clear on what constitutes a lemon, you don't have to satisfy all the requirements. A lawyer can start working on your behalf even before that happens.

Good luck! We're trying again after our horrible MY2014 experience, but we stepped away for a few years because someone else going through what I went through got another bad one when Chrysler swapped his out. Two bad ones in a row. I know it was probably rare, but I couldn't risk it. I think by now they've ironed out a lot of those issues, and you probably just got what everyone else gets when they get a bad one - lemons happen.

But man, I feel ya. BTDT.
 
#7 ·
Been thru this...FCA's buyback/replacement offer does NOT have to follow your state lemon law guidelines...they will either offer you a replacement/buyback that matches the lemon law or something close but they are not required to follow the lemon law since a "diplomatic" solution between you two will be what you both agree to not according to a law that was not officially applied via a lemon law case...their offer may very well be less than you would get via a true lemon law case but the official lem law case will add 3 months to your trevails. Your state has a mileage offset rule so an unofficial FCA offer AND an official case decision will net you that "cost". They can only charge you for the mileage from delivery to the first reported problem as all miles past that are legally considered "damaged". So they may go for an offer of all miles driven but you could negotiate that down to the proper portion of miles driven in all liklehood but they do not have to do this. The usual formula is what you paid divided by 100k to get the per mile rate to be charged so you can do that math on your own. In my case, they tried the no case diplomatic offer but it was for all miles driven and OH does not allow mileage offsets so I tried to get the regional FCA rep to meet that and that's where I learned they don't have to follow lemon laws when it is not a real lemon law case. My rep did all he could and cut the $10k in half but I said no go and went to arbitration and of course won to pay for zero miles. I don't know about IL but in OH the arbitrator is not "certified" which is the best of both worlds. That means that the decision is not binding on me/you but it is 100% binding on FCA so if you win, perfect, and if you lose you can still file a civil lawsuit version of a lemon law case as if the arbitration never happened.

FWIW, ISG unnecessarily adds 4-8 weeks to the process...I have never seen an org change personnel more often than they do...crazily inefficient but in the end the process works.

Oh, and the MY17 order banks open 6/9 (supposedly) so don't even bother with a MY16 IMHO.

Never forget that you own the process and when you have a conversation with anyone follow up with an email stating, "In our discussion on the phone today you said.....". Trust me, every convo.....
 
#8 · (Edited)
FWIW, ISG unnecessarily adds 4-8 weeks to the process...I have never seen an org change personnel more often than they do...crazily inefficient but in the end the process works.

Never forget that you own the process and when you have a conversation with anyone follow up with an email stating, "In our discussion on the phone today you said.....". Trust me, every convo.....
ISG sucked to deal with. For some reason it took about 3 weeks alone for them to get my VIN number switched out to my 2015. Once i went up the chain to a supervisor level the process got slightly smoother, but not faster.

Oh and i kept a daily email/phone log with EVERY conversation i had (with dealer, customer care, ISG, etc..) whoever it was with, date and time. That pretty much sealed the deal for me with my zone manager. He was very impressed with how detailed and accurate i was with keeping track of things. I think it was 23-25 pages in MS word of just call logs!! :eek:
 
#9 ·
Listen jeeps are awesome but sadly not immune to common mass production issues. Get a lawyer and save yourself the head ache. They know what they are doing. Plus there is more then Lemon laws to help you and ultimately representation is needed. Do not arm chair this.
FCA group will be well advised by lawyers who know you are not one. The Enhanced Customer Satisfaction group is a joke and powerless.
 
#10 ·
I spent the day looking at my service records, the proof is there. As it doesn't hurt my case, I will first try the diplomatic but stern method. If I used a lawyer, FCA would end up covering the cost; I'll let FCA know I'll spare them this expense as long as they are reasonable.

In regards to wasting time, it gets me closer to the MY17 launch. I was promised a call be Wednesday, I'll keep everyone updated.
 
#14 · (Edited)
All those contact numbers are out of date and changed or DISCONNECTED. Just an FYI
Kinda a big issue with FCA( maybe others manufacturers also) but FCA wants nothing to do with direct problem resolution. They pass you to a 3rd party group (ISG) Who is charged with saving as much $ as possible and not customer satisfaction. Now please before I get slammed, I like Jeep and the Jeep brand I like the Grand Cherokee but when problems arise they are not customer friendly. They tend to ignore and have a real issue in this area.
 
#20 · (Edited)
The NY one got me to a sales manager who then forwarded me along to a zone manager.

All I had to do was write the sales manager a brief email with outlining my situation, my name and number. He passed that along to a zone manager. Got a call from him within 2-3 days and was almost immediately told I could either have my jeep replaced with year newer model or get all my money back (all monthly payments made and down payment at lease signing).

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#15 · (Edited)
FWIW,

For the "no lemon case filed" diplomatic path THE person that is the decision maker is the Regional FCA Rep/Mgr, nobody else...that person has their level of authority and if they/you are not successful in working something out there is absolutely nobody else who can/will change their decision. They can't even initiate your lemon case they just direct you to the LL booklet for the process. The other key relationship of course if the dealer service mgr who "primes their pump" on facts and subjective (this guy is a nit picky pita, this is legit, etc...) which kinda sets the tone for the Regl Mgr in whether they want to use their pre-authorized discretionary flexibility or stay stingy and punt you to a LL filing.

To pursue a real case you must first follow the communication path EXACTLY as described in the Lemon Law booklet that came with the vehicle. This is not some black hole, it WILL launch your case within weeks guaranteed.

You can always subvert (word chosen intentionally) this process go to lemon law attorney but you really should do the arbitration process first UNLESS the arbitrator is "certified". If they are certified then their decision is 100% binding on FCA but also on you and you could not then file a civil lawsuit or if you do FCA can/will use the arbitrator decision against you. So if they are certified I, personally, would not risk a bad outcome without using an experienced LL attorney.
 
#17 · (Edited)
not at all, great question...you certainly could hire an attorney to help you but it will be 100% at your own cost as the NCDS arbitration process does not award attorney/legal fees.

also, I need to clarify my previous "certified" comments.....all cases thru NCDS are non-binding (non-certified) on you (unless you accept the outcome of course), just Chrysler.

http://www.ncdsusa.org/index.php?id=9

and faq's

http://www.ncdsusa.org/index.php?id=21
 
#18 ·
In an early post you mention about the "Regional FCA Rep/Mgr". How does one find out who this is and how to contact them? I have had many ECS cases and every time I have asked I have never been given an answer even told twice there is no such person by this group.
I was placed in this group involuntary and every time I go in for a repair I get assigned to this group.
I ask the dealership service people at two different dealers who have done repairs and they say the same that these reps do not exist anymore. I have a preferred service dealer now and only use them as they are much more pleasant.
 
#19 ·
In an early post you mention about the "Regional FCA Rep/Mgr". How does one find out who this is and how to contact them? I have had many ECS cases and every time I have asked I have never been given an answer even told twice there is no such person by this group.
I was placed in this group involuntary and every time I go in for a repair I get assigned to this group.
I ask the dealership service people at two different dealers who have done repairs and they say the same that these reps do not exist anymore. I have a preferred service dealer now and only use them as they are much more pleasant.
Welcome to the FCA world of corporate silos. My case is 1yr old so maybe they made changes. My dealer service mgr knew them but may/may not hook u up. My initial hookup was him calling me saying "u seem to having some issues we would like to replace your vehicle...'. He said the warranty claims $ on me triggered the offer call.
 
#21 ·
Not sure I understand as if you call any number listed they do not belong to Chrysler anymore. My sales and service manager say that Chrysler does not have field representatives. More importantly FCA Enhanced customer satisfaction Group says they do not exsisting to me.
No one ever posts on this forum who one is. Jeepcares on this forum does not provide this information. It is a secret not sure we are even permitted to discuss it openly with out risk of the FCA Police coming.

I understand what everyone says but really, If I follow FCA rules exactly and work really hard they might back their product? Come on now. I mean honestly it is ridiculous.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Not sure I understand as if you call any number listed they do not belong to Chrysler anymore. My sales and service manager say that Chrysler does not have field representatives.
try this number: (845) 578-2180 "Dave from Mopar" just answered the phone. He may be able to get you to the right person in PA. Just explain your situation and say you need to speak with an area customer service manager about your on going problems. The guy i spoke to got me to a sales manager who then got me to a customer service manager. Took a few days of emails and voicemails, but it worked.
 
#25 ·
Yes, kinda figured that but when I ask the FCA EHS(Enhanced Customers satisfaction) group they told me the same. Funny thing my dealer has learned the FCA way. I have no access to the service manager just two assistant managers. I guess if I went in and made a scene yelling and screaming I might, just not my style. Honestly frustrating and I just do not have the patience for it. Once had an issue with a Cadillac and the service manager and Cadillac Rep came to me, I did not have to go find them. That was minor compared to this vehicle. I really just want the JGC to work and be reliable. The real issue is not that I got a "bad one" it happens, but rather the way it is being or rather not being handled by FCA,Jeep and the dealer.
 
#26 ·
My truck is elevated to "Enhanced customer care" or whatever. I was literally told by the rep I was dealing with the following when I requested a buy back...."It is your right as a consumer to sell your vehicle privately if you aren't satisfied". WTF??? I learned that "enhanced customer care" vins get flagged every time they enter the dealer alerting Jeep/Chrysler that it is being worked on again. All that I have found about this program so far is that it is utterly useless. I can't wait to get rid of my truck and never deal with Jeep again. My truck has been in the dealer countless times to replace and fix things since the second week I have owned it. All of the issues are documented and still Jeep has refused to help in any way.
 
#27 ·
Update on my issue, NOTHING!!!!

I got a call yesterday from ECC to give me an update on my repairs. She said that senior techs are in contact with the dealership and are working on my issues. I asked about my request for a buy back and was told that is a different department, she only deals with the repair side.

I don't care at this point. I'm in a Chevy Suburban loaner and my car has been in service for over a week now which has raised the total past 30 days. This is all helping my buyback case get stronger and getting me closer to the MY17s.

I also heard on the news yesterday that FCA is still using Tacata airbags even though the know about the recalls because of a shortage in new/safe airbags and will have to recall them but 2018. WTF
 
#28 · (Edited)
GL having them process a buy back for you. I did a ton a research when i was in your shoes last year and i think MAYBE one person went through the actual buy back through FCA directly, everyone else including myself went through a zone manager or lawyer.

Keep in mind my Jeep was at my dealer for literally 2 weeks straight (initially), then another 6 weeks straight with no end in sight. I escalated as high as i could with the "enhanced customer care" and they declined my buy back. Stating "the vehicle is not eligible at this time for buy back and a repair will be made once the STAR group brings in a territory field tech to diagnose my Jeep." That was when i dug even deeper online and got a hold of a zone manager.
 
#29 ·
My JGC has been back in for 3 days this time around. Dealership says we are waitting on a Chrysler tech to call to approve repairs. This is where it sits. I am told that for whatever reason you get linked to this ENHANCED CUSTOMER SATISFACTION group you are pretty much flagged for them everytime and that they take away any control dealership has with repairs. Like I said day 3 and we are waitting for a tech to call. What would be interesting is if "jeepcares" who is part of that group and active on this site actually define what they do and how it enhances customer satisfaction? My research has lead me to the belief they are not aware of the bad press they are getting and the issues they cause with both the customer and the dealership. So it would be good to see them state how exactly they help?
 
#32 ·
I finally got the call today. A lady from the company Stericycle called and informed me that FCA approved a replacement vehicle and that she would be my main contact. She mentioned MSRP to MSRP and the standard mileage fee (will fight this).

I responded by saying "With all I have gone through, I don't know if I want another Jeep". She will check with FCA to see if a buyback is an option with this Non-Lemon resolution that has been offered.

With no '17HA on the radar, I don't know what to do :confused:
 
#33 ·
Take your money and run. Even if you buy another Chrysler product. You have cash to bargain with. I did the whole MSRP to MSRP and it was a joke once you get nailed with the mileage. Plus I got 3 years of free oil changes and the 7 year warranty thrown in. Took an act of congress, lots and lots of phone calls. Start a log of all your calls of when and who you talked with. Record them if you can in your state. Lot of broken promises during my exchange.
You can also get Chrysler to do a collateral swap on your loan if you like your rate and terms. The dealership won't like this because they won't get credit for a sale.
 
#35 ·
I've had that same error before ..mine was because the connector to the throttle body came loose and the ecu lost contact with the throttle body

If that ever happens again pop the hood and look at the throttle body
Might have just come loose on you
 
#36 ·
Update:
FCA did agree on a buyback or vehicle exchange MSRP to MSRP with a $.52/mile use fee. I wrote a nice letter to the CEO and mailed it certified to their HQ. Was called 10 days later and final agreement was: I can pick up to $3,000 over my original MSRP' usage fee waived. Now I just have to find or order a replacement car.

The other day I visited a dealer and test drove both an HA and summit. During the drive I found a road with a wide speed bump. I took both cars over the same speed bump at 13mph. The HA went over and did one full bounce, the Summit bounced 3 1/2 times. Definitely a sportier ride on the HA, don't know if i can live with the floaty Summit.

My options is to wait until September when the release goes public to see if the HA will continue and possibly get stuck with a Summit, or get a 16 HA.
 
#39 ·
Don't remember if I posted this before but I sent a polite but stern certified letter addressed to the CEO about my Lemon. A week later I got a call from someone (don't know his rank in the company) and was offered MSRP to MSRP + $3,000 on my replacement. My 2015 HA was 50,880 and I now have 53,880 to spend.

Last Friday I gave my local dealer an order for a 2017 Summit 3.6L, Ivory 3 coat, black interior, with the Cali Platinum package. I think it will still cost me @ $2,500 which isn't bad for a 2015 HA to 2017 Summit swap. Still rather have a 2017 HA but don't know when or if it will be available this year. I went with the platinum package and will later decide if I black it out.

The dealer called me today and told me that a VIN has already been assigned to my car and that it has been placed at the front of the production line.

Now the wait.....
 
#40 ·
Beautiful! Now that's how I would expect Chrysler to handle a case. Even though it took you writing the CEO, at least you're being taken care of. I think a swap from the 2015 to the 2017 is worth it just for the new shifter. Every time I get in our 2016 I'm grateful that Chrysler put the new one in.

Keep us posted!
 
#42 ·
#43 ·
Lets not call them major :)

They had to replace the power door lock switch on the front passenger side. There is a stain on the retractable sunroof cover that they will try to clean or replace. And the sunroof glass, we'll see for yourself.

Blue Text Sky Line Font
Vehicle Car Automotive exterior Auto part Family car



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#46 ·
Lets not call them major :)

They had to replace the power door lock switch on the front passenger side. There is a stain on the retractable sunroof cover that they will try to clean or replace. And the sunroof glass, we'll see for yourself.

View attachment 71805 View attachment 71806


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Seriously...you went through all that crap with your previous Jeep and now this? Did you see the vehicle before taking delivery or was this take it or leave it deals?
I would be pissed....
 
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