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  #61  
Old 03-12-2016, 08:38 AM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

It's not just about fuel savings...it's also about reduced emissions. I'm just pointing that out for reference, not to try and change anybody's mind about whether or not they like the 'Feature' or not.

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  #62  
Old 03-12-2016, 10:20 AM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

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Originally Posted by Jim_in_PA View Post
It's not just about fuel savings...it's also about reduced emissions. I'm just pointing that out for reference, not to try and change anybody's mind about whether or not they like the 'Feature' or not.
Exactly.

There's nothing worse than being in a traffic jam and sucking the exhaust from the vehicle ahead into your car.

Having said that, I'd still rather they offer a hybrid option. That would be far better in stop and go jam ups where you never go faster than idle speed by simply letting off the brakes. Under those conditions, Stop/Start would not activate.
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  #63  
Old 03-12-2016, 12:34 PM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

james - if the heating/cooling system kicks on, it starts. if it's running hard, it doesn't shut off.

i like it, and as i've said many times now, one button push turns it off if you don't. shrug.
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  #64  
Old 03-12-2016, 12:50 PM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

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Originally Posted by Jim_in_PA View Post
It's not just about fuel savings...it's also about reduced emissions. I'm just pointing that out for reference, not to try and change anybody's mind about whether or not they like the 'Feature' or not.
I think most of the push toward fuel savings is about reduced emissions. The standards keep getting tougher and tougher.

If fuel economy was as important as all the talk about it would indicate, we'd all be driving the most efficient cars on the market, and Jeeps like the Grand Cherokee would be a rarity.

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  #65  
Old 03-12-2016, 01:29 PM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Auxiliary battery is located right next to the main battery. Now does everyone understand what I meant by "Hey, look, it's little junior!"?

Or something along those lines.
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  #66  
Old 03-14-2016, 07:15 AM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
I think most of the push toward fuel savings is about reduced emissions. The standards keep getting tougher and tougher.

If fuel economy was as important as all the talk about it would indicate, we'd all be driving the most efficient cars on the market, and Jeeps like the Grand Cherokee would be a rarity.

--
It's important to the industry that needs to meet regulations, just not most consumers because we have these cycles of cheap gas to convince people that it's OK to keep buying gas guzzlers. Those same people don't give a crap about emissions, either.

People only care about fuel economy when gas is $4 a gallon. At that point, suddenly sales go up for little tin cans. When gas prices come back down, they go back to buying SUVs, aka Sizable Utility Vehicles.

What needs to happen is for the vehicles people really want to become more efficient. Right now, the concentration is on efficiencies with already efficient vehicles. Those big lumbering people movers are still putting out numbers in the low 20's.

Technologies like Stop/Start are a good beginning, but we need to start taking into account the 90% of the time the power of these vehicles isn't needed, such as at highway cruising speeds when not towing or hauling. The 8 speed transmission is a good start toward that, but fails with a V6 in areas where hills are common. When you're constantly jumping down to 6th gear or lower to maintain speed on hills, you lose the benefit. An electric booster motor would go along way toward keeping the transmission in those higher gears going uphill while charging could take place on the back side.

Likewise, those v8 and diesel engines could run in the flat on few cylinders and fire all of them up when the need to go uphill, merge or pass is needed.
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  #67  
Old 03-14-2016, 10:14 AM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Nobody likes polluting they just find a SUV with a v8 more practical and utilitarian than a compact car.

V8's already come equipped with MDS that shuts off cylinders during light load situations. I believe the Eco diesel gets better gas mileage than the v6. Nobody's out to kill the earth.


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  #68  
Old 03-14-2016, 10:47 AM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

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Originally Posted by Jsboening View Post
V8's already come equipped with MDS that shuts off cylinders during light load situations. I believe the Eco diesel gets better gas mileage than the v6. Nobody's out to kill the earth.
Does the Jeep V8 have MDS?

As far as fuel economy, that's not really what makes a vehicle better or worse for the environment (at least not in the short term). Emissions output is, and even the best diesels still can't beat 4 and 6 cylinder engines in most vehicles for emissions output. That's why you have a company like VW pulling shenanigans with their emissions reporting, even on their small cars.

Long term, fuel economy is important in order to get us off foreign oil use, especially down the road when, if things continue the way they are, demand will be greater than supply as it becomes harder to find more available sources - and that day will come.

Even if we continue to drill deeper, there will come a time when there simply isn't any more to tap. Further, it would be really nice to be able to avoid buying oil from people who really don't like us.

Quite frankly, refining oil into gas, then burning it running to the dry cleaner is hardly the best use of a resource than can be used to actually make things we can get far longer term use out of - like the body panels on the car, for example.
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  #69  
Old 03-14-2016, 11:56 AM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
Does the Jeep V8 have MDS?

As far as fuel economy, that's not really what makes a vehicle better or worse for the environment (at least not in the short term). Emissions output is, and even the best diesels still can't beat 4 and 6 cylinder engines in most vehicles for emissions output. That's why you have a company like VW pulling shenanigans with their emissions reporting, even on their small cars.

Long term, fuel economy is important in order to get us off foreign oil use, especially down the road when, if things continue the way they are, demand will be greater than supply as it becomes harder to find more available sources - and that day will come.

Even if we continue to drill deeper, there will come a time when there simply isn't any more to tap. Further, it would be really nice to be able to avoid buying oil from people who really don't like us.

Quite frankly, refining oil into gas, then burning it running to the dry cleaner is hardly the best use of a resource than can be used to actually make things we can get far longer term use out of - like the body panels on the car, for example.

Yes, even the 6.4l in the SRT.




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  #70  
Old 03-14-2016, 03:27 PM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
Does the Jeep V8 have MDS?
Yes, since MY11.
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  #71  
Old 03-15-2016, 09:51 AM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Personally I think start/stop is probably less effective then we think. Yes it gets the MPG up 1 point but at the cost of another battery, increased starter etc.

I also think the chevy volt drivetrain is the way to go. Not a semi hybrid system like in the civic or other cars, but a true hybrid. The car runs on battery by default, then a small engine comes on to charge the battery, and / or to provide a little bit of extra torque when called for. The beauty of this is that the engine can run steady at it's most efficient rpm's to provide power, unlike an normal car engine which is revving all over it's range.

The only problem with the volt system is that battery's are not "clean". That should be focused on, improved upon etc, but I think the volt drive train is the best out there at this point and has a lot of potential. Trying to make a cast iron v8 into something more efficient (MDS, start/stop) is interesting, but not a long term solution.
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Old 03-15-2016, 11:18 AM
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Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

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The only problem with the volt system is that battery's are not "clean".
I hear this argument against electrics all the time, but it's a red herring.

Is there pollution involved in the manufacture of batteries? Of course.

However, millions of gallons of oil are leaked, spilled and otherwise allowed to get into the waterways every single year in the drilling and transportation processes. That doesn't even include the hundreds of thousands of gallons of gasoline spilled by customers at filling stations or their homes every year. In fact, that's why MTBE has been all but phased out - it turns out any emissions benefit was outweighed by how toxic it is when spilled into storm sewers at the filling stations.

Plus, electric vehicles involve far fewer consumable parts and fluids than gas engines over their lifespan, all of which contain toxic substances.

Of course, we also get the "electricity is generated by coal" argument, but even in areas where that is true, it's still far less polluting per vehicle to charge batteries than individual gas powered vehicles create while running for even half the time. Further, electricity is slowly moving toward less polluting methods of production, so it doesn't have to stay that way long term. In fact, the saving grace for the whole situation is coal is becoming far too expensive to be a profitable means to run anything.

In the end, most of what pollutes with electric technologies can be all but eliminated with newer, more efficient technology and better regulation. With gasoline, we're far from even breaking even with consumption and pollution despite more and more efficiencies being put into place.

Honestly, I agree that the Volt system is about the best system you can get, especially for a single vehicle household where a full electric vehicle may have too many limitations. Diesel trains have been using small diesel generators to run large electric motors for decades. It's fully possible to execute that in a smaller form factor for nearly any vehicle.

The alternative would be using less powerful gas engines with electric helper motors for when more power is needed, essentially using a larger version of the technology used in self-power bicycles.

Hydrogen keeps being thrown around as the great savior, but I feel that's not a viable primary power source as it's far more efficient to simply power an electric motor directly. It's not a bad option for extending range since it's about as quick to fill up on hydrogen as it is to fill up on gas. Perhaps the future is hydrogen/electric hybrid vehicles: electric for day to day driving with hygrogen for distance traveling.

Either way, it's something we need to explore now, while gas is relatively cheap and plentiful instead of waiting until we hit the wall later. That way, alternative fuel technologies will have had time to mature and be ready to take over.

The problem is, we're probably too short-sighted to do that.
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