2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working? - Page 7 - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 -

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #73  
Old 03-15-2016, 08:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 431
Thanks: 99
Thanked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 1975
Briant73 has a reputation beyond reputeBriant73 has a reputation beyond reputeBriant73 has a reputation beyond reputeBriant73 has a reputation beyond reputeBriant73 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

My 2 cents is this is the start of FCA working to increase mpg and lower emissions across the board which is a good thing and a lot of other makers are doing this. I do wish this feature was able to be permanently set on or off though.

Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #74  
Old 03-16-2016, 01:32 PM
canistel's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2012 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 133
Thanks: 6
Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 1360
canistel has a reputation beyond reputecanistel has a reputation beyond reputecanistel has a reputation beyond reputecanistel has a reputation beyond reputecanistel has a reputation beyond reputecanistel has a reputation beyond reputecanistel has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
I hear this argument against electrics all the time, but it's a red herring.

Is there pollution involved in the manufacture of batteries? Of course.

However, millions of gallons of oil are leaked, spilled and otherwise allowed to get into the waterways every single year in the drilling and transportation processes. That doesn't even include the hundreds of thousands of gallons of gasoline spilled by customers at filling stations or their homes every year. In fact, that's why MTBE has been all but phased out - it turns out any emissions benefit was outweighed by how toxic it is when spilled into storm sewers at the filling stations.

Plus, electric vehicles involve far fewer consumable parts and fluids than gas engines over their lifespan, all of which contain toxic substances.

Of course, we also get the "electricity is generated by coal" argument, but even in areas where that is true, it's still far less polluting per vehicle to charge batteries than individual gas powered vehicles create while running for even half the time. Further, electricity is slowly moving toward less polluting methods of production, so it doesn't have to stay that way long term. In fact, the saving grace for the whole situation is coal is becoming far too expensive to be a profitable means to run anything.

In the end, most of what pollutes with electric technologies can be all but eliminated with newer, more efficient technology and better regulation. With gasoline, we're far from even breaking even with consumption and pollution despite more and more efficiencies being put into place.

Honestly, I agree that the Volt system is about the best system you can get, especially for a single vehicle household where a full electric vehicle may have too many limitations. Diesel trains have been using small diesel generators to run large electric motors for decades. It's fully possible to execute that in a smaller form factor for nearly any vehicle.

The alternative would be using less powerful gas engines with electric helper motors for when more power is needed, essentially using a larger version of the technology used in self-power bicycles.

Hydrogen keeps being thrown around as the great savior, but I feel that's not a viable primary power source as it's far more efficient to simply power an electric motor directly. It's not a bad option for extending range since it's about as quick to fill up on hydrogen as it is to fill up on gas. Perhaps the future is hydrogen/electric hybrid vehicles: electric for day to day driving with hygrogen for distance traveling.

Either way, it's something we need to explore now, while gas is relatively cheap and plentiful instead of waiting until we hit the wall later. That way, alternative fuel technologies will have had time to mature and be ready to take over.

The problem is, we're probably too short-sighted to do that.
No argument from me, agreed 100%. I just mentioned the battery since it is the spot in that system that needs the most attention yet.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 03-16-2016, 01:58 PM
NetworkTV's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 833
Thanks: 3
Thanked 192 Times in 145 Posts
Rep Power: 7007
NetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Quote:
Originally Posted by canistel View Post
No argument from me, agreed 100%. I just mentioned the battery since it is the spot in that system that needs the most attention yet.
Sure, but it's one of the simplest components to deal with compared to brakes, shocks and (for some) even fluid changes. In fact, most auto parts stores will test it (along with the starter) and swap it out free of charge when you buy a new one.

Also, unlike a lot of components, it usually gives you a bit of a warning that it's getting ready to fail, though a cold snap with a slightly weak battery can cause it not to have enough juice to turn the motor over.

Having said that, I'm not looking forward to having to deal with forking the battery out from under the passenger seat when the day comes to replace it.

Luckily, assuming they don't do something to wear their battery down prematurely, most drivers never have to deal with it. Even my last truck that I kept for 17 years only required two battery changes (along with 1 alternator). While I had to actually change it myself, Autozone provided me with a cart and all the necessary tools both times to make it easy. The hardest part was trying to get it up out of the engine bay, which on a full size pickup is over 4 feet off the ground where the battery is.

Honestly, if you asked 100 drivers to pick one of the following tasks to perform themselves: oil change, air filter change, change a flat tire or change the battery, I'll bet the majority would choose the battery on cars where the battery is under the hood. It's something that hasn't changed in decades compared to the other tasks that change with every vehicle.

With the Jeep, that number might be less since many might not even know where it is.
__________________
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Deep Cherry Red Crystal Pearl Coat

Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 03-16-2016, 02:11 PM
Jim_in_PA's Avatar
Super Moderator

My Jeep: 2012 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SE PA (central Bucks County)
Posts: 4,593
Thanks: 841
Thanked 656 Times in 526 Posts
Rep Power: 96435
Jim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Net', I don't disagree that many folks might either not know where the battery is (largely because they forget the ever-popular "RTFM") or find it less convenient to service themselves. But JGC is hardly unique in the battery being located elsewhere than under the hood with the engine...there's a whole thread about that here dating back to something like 2011.
__________________
2012 GC Overland Summit - Winter Chill with New Saddle interior. 5.7L HEMI V8 - Pirelli Scorpion Verde Plus "shoes" - LED fogs and DRLs



Day-job...Telecom Technical Sales
Avocations...Woodworking, Equestrian, Food, Photography
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 03-16-2016, 02:31 PM
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,031
Thanks: 74
Thanked 279 Times in 246 Posts
Rep Power: 46362
lstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_in_PA View Post
Net', I don't disagree that many folks might either not know where the battery is (largely because they forget the ever-popular "RTFM") or find it less convenient to service themselves. But JGC is hardly unique in the battery being located elsewhere than under the hood with the engine...there's a whole thread about that here dating back to something like 2011.
Way back in the 60's, some brands put the batteries behind the passengers, allegedly for weight distribution.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 03-16-2016, 02:36 PM
NetworkTV's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 833
Thanks: 3
Thanked 192 Times in 145 Posts
Rep Power: 7007
NetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_in_PA View Post
Net', I don't disagree that many folks might either not know where the battery is (largely because they forget the ever-popular "RTFM") or find it less convenient to service themselves. But JGC is hardly unique in the battery being located elsewhere than under the hood with the engine...there's a whole thread about that here dating back to something like 2011.
No doubt. I'm just saying if someone is buying a new Jeep after having a previous vehicle for 6 or 7 years - or is moving up to a GC from a more basic vehicle, they might not have encountered it before.

I was actually momentarily thrown by it (especially with the remote connections being under the hood), though it only took a quick Google search to get the location. It was faster than looking it up in the manual.

I'm more or less talking about putting people on the spot where you say "pick a task" with no further instruction. If they aren't familiar with the location, they would likely choose something else on the list. If I didn't already know the location, I probably would have chosen the air filter as my task. Heck, I probably would have anyway, since it's lighter, requires no tools and the filter even tells you what to replace it with.
__________________
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Deep Cherry Red Crystal Pearl Coat

Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 03-18-2016, 05:28 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 1866
ccwd is on a distinguished road
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joruus80 View Post
We've had ours for 2 weeks. It is noticeable on shutdown and start up if you are paying attention for it or if you have the radio muted. I have not noticed it if my wife and I are having a conversation or if the radio is turned up at all.

However, there is one negative I've noticed. I have a tendency to pull away quickly from being stopped. I don't mean flooring the pedal but rather moving my foot quickly from the brake to the gas pedal. If I do that too quickly and the engine hasn't started fully then the car sort of shudders a little going forward, almost like a mild version of the bouncing that you could get with someone learning how to drive a manual. That being said, it is totally my fault. If you even pause just a tiny bit, half of a potato, then the car is fully started up and ready to go when you hit the gas.

Overall I'd say we really haven't noticed it after the first week. My wife was pretty apprehensive at first and considered turning it off each time she started but never did and hasn't complained about it at all since. In fact we both absolutely love the car, although I did get some dirty looks for putting it to Offroad 2 while waiting for her to come outside and get into the car. Apparently she didn't appreciate having to climb 4+ inches higher to get in.


I have the shudder after the engine starts from a stop. The shudder is there when I take my foot of the brake, the engine start and the car rolls in idle (the traffic in front gets going slowly). It feels like it is coming from the transmission. The oil pressure in the transmission has apparently dropped and it takes time to bring the oil pressure up to engage the clutches. I have also a car from an other make with start stop that does not have the shudder.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 03-18-2016, 10:26 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 46
Thanks: 8
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 433
Bob Perry is on a distinguished road
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

I drove a 2016 Cherokee for 2 days with the start-stop while my 2014 Grand Cherokee was in for warranty work. Personally, I found it quite annoying, especially if you have to start quickly from a start. If you do a lot of city driving, do you really want your starter engaging every time you come to a stop? I am not convinced that the fuel savings will be that significant, time will tell. I an not knocking the system, just my thoughts from my espierience
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 03-19-2016, 07:32 AM
NetworkTV's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 833
Thanks: 3
Thanked 192 Times in 145 Posts
Rep Power: 7007
NetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Perry View Post
I drove a 2016 Cherokee for 2 days with the start-stop while my 2014 Grand Cherokee was in for warranty work. Personally, I found it quite annoying, especially if you have to start quickly from a start. If you do a lot of city driving, do you really want your starter engaging every time you come to a stop? I am not convinced that the fuel savings will be that significant, time will tell. I an not knocking the system, just my thoughts from my espierience
That's why, if they're going to add more battery capacity anyway, they'd be better off with a hybrid model where putting the vehicle in motion with any kind of authority engages the engine once the vehicle is rolling (essentially push starting it with the electric motor). This allows you to get rolling under electric power, then get a power boost from the gas engine once it turns over.

They could even employ a staged system where once you get under 10MPH, the system starts dropping cylinders, then shuts down entirely once you've stopped for more than 5 seconds. It would then run under battery power for anything below 15MPH, assuming you don't jump on the accelerator hard. The system would only need to fire up part of the motor periodically to maintain battery charge when running the AC or other high power devices.

That would provide the same or better economy by working in stop and go traffic jams while eliminating the need for an auxiliary starter. That extra weight and space could go toward more battery capacity.
__________________
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Deep Cherry Red Crystal Pearl Coat

Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 03-21-2016, 09:24 AM
vnbWK2's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 541
Thanks: 11
Thanked 21 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 2889
vnbWK2 is on a distinguished road
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

I wonder why Jeep decided to use engine shut down/restart instead of cylinder deactivation/reactivation. Some vehicles do this today by deactivating 3 cylinders on a V6/I6 engine and deactivating 4 cylinders on a V8. I understand shutting down the engine would save more gas compared to just deactivating a few cylinders, but I wouldn't want total engine shut down/restart if I feel ANY type of engine shutter and wear and tear on the starter and battery.
__________________
2017 WK2 Limited 3.6L - Billet Silver/Black

(O||||||||O)
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 03-21-2016, 09:53 AM
Jim_in_PA's Avatar
Super Moderator

My Jeep: 2012 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SE PA (central Bucks County)
Posts: 4,593
Thanks: 841
Thanked 656 Times in 526 Posts
Rep Power: 96435
Jim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond reputeJim_in_PA has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnbWK2 View Post
I wonder why Jeep decided to use engine shut down/restart instead of cylinder deactivation/reactivation. Some vehicles do this today by deactivating 3 cylinders on a V6/I6 engine and deactivating 4 cylinders on a V8. I understand shutting down the engine would save more gas compared to just deactivating a few cylinders, but I wouldn't want total engine shut down/restart if I feel ANY type of engine shutter and wear and tear on the starter and battery.
MDS has been on the V8 since MY11. (cylinder deactivation) It only saves fuel while cruising which boosts overall fuel economy, but doesn't cover all bases. Start/stop eliminates fuel consumption while in stop and go traffic so it adds additional fuel economy savings as well as reduces emissions.
__________________
2012 GC Overland Summit - Winter Chill with New Saddle interior. 5.7L HEMI V8 - Pirelli Scorpion Verde Plus "shoes" - LED fogs and DRLs



Day-job...Telecom Technical Sales
Avocations...Woodworking, Equestrian, Food, Photography
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 03-21-2016, 10:29 AM
NetworkTV's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 833
Thanks: 3
Thanked 192 Times in 145 Posts
Rep Power: 7007
NetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond reputeNetworkTV has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2016 Owners...how's the stop and start working?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_in_PA View Post
MDS has been on the V8 since MY11. (cylinder deactivation) It only saves fuel while cruising which boosts overall fuel economy, but doesn't cover all bases. Start/stop eliminates fuel consumption while in stop and go traffic so it adds additional fuel economy savings as well as reduces emissions.
Frankly, we could save a lot of fuel without any change to vehicles if the DOT in many places would properly utilize smarter traffic lights that would minimize the time sitting at them.

Right now, traffic lights often do the opposite of what they were intended, which was to help traffic flow. In fact, in some areas, that's intentional as the mindset is to use them to slow traffic down.

The problem is, the opposite affect happens when people sit at too many lights for too long. Often, they literally race from one light to another, hoping to occasionally beat the cycle. So, not only do people use more fuel starting off quicker than they normally would, but the end up sitting longer by getting to a stop light sooner.

Where I live, there's one traffic light that should be the model for every other light. It not only senses when a car is waiting at a red light, but also monitors traffic both on the main and side roads. What that means is, if I miss the light coming out of the side road, but traffic on the main road is light or even non-existent, I'll get a green light immediately. If traffic is heavy on the main road, but cars get backed up to a second trigger further back on the side road, it will wait longer to change, but not quite a full cycle. If the side road is nearly empty, but traffic on the main road is heavy, the full cycle will be given. Likewise, if there's a lot of traffic on the side road coming out on the green, the light will stay green longer on the side road to clear more of it. If there are only a couple cars, the green for the side road will shorten.

If more lights took the actual traffic flow into account, we'd save a ton of gas yearly.
__________________
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Deep Cherry Red Crystal Pearl Coat

Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NetworkTV For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2016 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Hard Rock Lifted :: 2016 Jeep Rubicon KoonsDCGroupBuy Member Garage Discussions 0 01-09-2016 12:03 PM
Remote start and Stop Gravity Tech Tips/DIY/How To 6 02-28-2015 10:29 AM
2015 jeep cherokee start and stop system. jim383 2014+ Cherokee-KL 9 09-27-2014 04:47 PM
Uk owners uk owners uk owners uk owners Cornish dave Grand Cherokee - WJ 4 12-11-2012 11:48 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community

JeepGarage.org is in no way associated with or endorsed by FCA US LLC. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Mopar and SRT are registered trademarks of FCA US LLC.