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  #13  
Old 12-10-2014, 02:51 PM
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Re: 2016 to get twin turbos?

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Originally Posted by ramblinman View Post
If Chrysler makes the switch to twin turbos, they will have a lot of problems initially, just as BMW and Ford have with their initial efforts at gas turbo charged engines. They save fuel if you have a light foot on the accelerator, so that the turbos don't spool up that much. But if you stay on the boost, your mileage will be as bad as a V-8 if not worse.
It is also ancient technology applied to a modern problem.
Super high compression gas engines with direct high pressure injection and stratified charge can produce torque in diesel range with horsepower in gas range with higher mileage for same output.

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  #14  
Old 12-10-2014, 02:53 PM
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Re: 2016 to get twin turbos?

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Originally Posted by cirrus365 View Post
I have hemi v8 but would have bought turbo v6 over it if available.
I have a hemi v8 and would have bought a higher compression hemi with gdi, or a hemi v8 with twin turbos if they had been available.
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  #15  
Old 12-10-2014, 03:53 PM
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Re: 2016 to get twin turbos?

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate View Post
I've got bad news for you guys: almost no one on that list has V8s anymore. M class killed the V8s this year except for the AMG, Porsche switched the Cayennes and Macans to turbo v6s (except the very top $100k+ Cayenne Turbos), BMWs - same, turbo v6s. LR - haven't looked at them lately because they're incredibly unreliable but I suspect they will be moving in that direction for the same reason everyone else is, which is government regulations.

Still, as someone who wrote off a number of SUVs when shopping because they didn't have V8 power, a twin-turbo v6 isn't bad as long as it actually provides comparable (or better) performance. Not that it will save gas and yes, it will be less reliable. But ultimately, that's the result of government regulation, and within the next few years you're not going to see V8s in cars costing less than 6 figures.

EDIT: Just looked at the RR Sport, base is now a turbo V6 as well. You have to pay for the Supercharged to get the V8, which starts at $80k. Which, for a real V8 is actually a bargain these days. Too bad they're unreliable POSs.

BMW has the xdrive 50i with a v8, and I believe the srt will continue with the v8 also. I'll be able to find a v8 easy, I hope.....
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Old 12-10-2014, 04:03 PM
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Re: 2016 to get twin turbos?

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Originally Posted by dubwarren View Post
BMW has the xdrive 50i with a v8, and I believe the srt will continue with the v8 also. I'll be able to find a v8 easy, I hope.....
I stand corrected, but again, starting at $70k, which means $80k+ with any decent options. So SRT will likely be the cheapest realistic option and will still cost a hefty sum (and likely to cost more after the CAFE standards kick in).
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  #17  
Old 12-10-2014, 05:47 PM
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2016 to get twin turbos?

I'd pay more as long as I can get what I want. Id be mad at myself if I settled for a v6 to save 10 grand.

I have a feeling the v6 turbos will cost more also. So, if a v6 turbo overland runs me 55ish, I'll gladly pay 10-15k more to have a true beast instead of a wanna be beast.

My guess is there are a lot of people who feel like I do with regard to engine size, at least I hope that's the case....
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:45 PM
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Re: 2016 to get twin turbos?

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Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post
I totally agree as well.

I dumped my 4th Generation 4Runner that had a great V8 engine because the new ones didn't (and still don't) offer a V8 option.

If Jeep drops the V8 on the Grand Cherokee, I'll go to someone who still carries them like Land Rover, Porsche, BMW, or Mercedes.

To get the V8 models for those cars you are looking significantly more than a non-SRT Jeep with the 5.7l.....at that point just get an SRT, would probably still be less than the v8 options from other manufacturers.


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  #19  
Old 12-10-2014, 07:31 PM
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Re: 2016 to get twin turbos?

I'd love a petrol/gas v6 turbo. Nissan have been doing them for years with the skyline (my first car was a GM Holden Commodore with a nissan turbo 3l straight 6), as long as you look after the oil they can be very reliable. And torque delivery is great, along with lots of tuning options.
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  #20  
Old 12-10-2014, 07:34 PM
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Re: 2016 to get twin turbos?

Given there is time for development and refining these new power plant versions, the end result could be surprising. ('could be a dud, too, but I suspect that's less likely)
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  #21  
Old 12-10-2014, 07:53 PM
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Re: 2016 to get twin turbos?

If a turbo v6 will move the GC better than the 5.7 Id consider it. I'm sure it's possible.....but then again...aligning the trim properly is also "possible".....

See what I'm getting at?

I doubt Chrysler gets the twin turbo right the first time around....my prediction-the next body style will be absolutely GORGEOUS, and the engine, if it's a v6 twin turbo, will underwhelm.

Just my personal nightmare, er, opinion.
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:56 PM
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Re: 2016 to get twin turbos?

The only way I'd be happy with a Turbo V6 would be if it had V8 range performance. And by that, I mean:
- 0-60 in under 7 seconds or better
- 350 HP + with similar torque

The only SUV that even comes close to offering these kind of numbers is the 2014 Range Rover Sport which has a supercharged V6:

It has a 3.0-liter 340-horsepower supercharged V6 engine with start/stop technology, creating 332 lb-ft of torque

Remember...

There is No Replacement for Displacement!

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  #23  
Old 12-10-2014, 08:59 PM
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Re: 2016 to get twin turbos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post
The only way I'd be happy with a Turbo V6 would be if it had V8 range performance. And by that, I mean:
- 0-60 in under 7 seconds or better
- 350 HP + with similar torque

There is No Replacement for Displacement!


Every now and then it would not hurt to Google (or Bing) a bit about turbo engines. Now, I am most definitely NOT the authority on turbocharging but I have been through turbo, intercooler, up-pipe and down-pipe replacements in my life. And 3-4 retunes on the dyno and 7-8 street tunes. Turbo lag is a non-issue in modern cars with 2-3 turbos. It is not an issue in my single scroll TD04-16G. It categorically is not an issue on a twin-turbo charged engine.

The replacement for displacement is called turbo. It is valid in F1. It is valid on the street. In the 1980s, in qualifying, cars would have more than 1300 horsepower from a 1.5 L V6 engine. At the height of the V10-V12 era (pre-Senna accident in 1994), from an engine more than twice as big (3.5L V12) they were barely scraping 800 hp.

The only thing better than large displacement is a large displacement engine with even more cylinders and turbos (AUDI RS7 ). One could make the argument that it is not so much the displacement (engine size) as the sheer number of extra cylinders that makes the difference. I am quite certain that not many of you would find a 5.7 L V6 exhilarating to drive. Nor do I think people would prefer a 4.2 L inline four to the AUDI's 4.2 L V8. And last time I checked the new M5 (V8, turbo) was faster than the V10 larger engined predecessor.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/1700482598001


I would trade an SRT and all its 6.4 L mighty Hemi V8 for a 3.0 supercharged Range Rover (340 hp, 332 lb-ft) on engine alone. A turbocharged 3L V6 should be even better. A simple look at BMW tuner DINAN
Products - Dinan, Leader in BMW Performance Parts and Upgrades
shows what is possible with a simple ECU reflash for a 3L V6 turbo engine: Stage 1 adds 44 HP and 58 lb-ft. Add a few other toys: 98 More Horsepower / 129 More lb-ft of Torque (Stage 3) which puts it on par with the V8 M3.

And yes, I have driven tuned BMW cars. Most recently was last summer behind the wheel of a buddy's 135i. I hate BMWs but the engine and the chassis were superb. In fact the owner is on this Jeep board. And in fact a common friend has a V8 M3. And in fact I July when I last drove the 135i, the 135 pulled out of corners faster than the M3 at our undisclosed cornfields test grounds

And i guess then there's this
http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/2016-m...-it-1669052554
Quote:
The biturbo three liter V6's output has been posted at a fairly hair-raising 362 horsepower and 384 lb-ft of torque on tap from just 1,400 RPM.
A new identity crisis from Mercedes.
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  #24  
Old 12-10-2014, 10:24 PM
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Re: 2016 to get twin turbos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubwarren View Post
If a turbo v6 will move the GC better than the 5.7 Id consider it. I'm sure it's possible.....but then again...aligning the trim properly is also "possible".....

See what I'm getting at?

I doubt Chrysler gets the twin turbo right the first time around....my prediction-the next body style will be absolutely GORGEOUS, and the engine, if it's a v6 twin turbo, will underwhelm.

Just my personal nightmare, er, opinion.
Yea I can't really imagine those engines will hit the market with no issues. I don't think Chrysler puts anything on the market without a bunch of issues that need to be worked out...at least from what I have seen. I think I would give it a good 18 months to 2 years before I would want to buy one.
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