3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

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Old 01-14-2015, 05:55 PM
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3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

Hi all,

i have a thread in the export WK2 section (as i am in Australia), but feel it's relevance is also here.

i am trying to understand the physical differences in parts and or software between the 3.6L E85 compatible versions (with sticker in the fuel door) and the ones that don't.

do they have different injectors (part numbers)
different fuel lines?
different fuel pumps?
different software/tune
addition of an ethanol sensor in the fuel line/tank

etc etc.

i have searched and read that a few people have just gone and used E85 in there non stickerd (assuming non compatible) 3.6L with no ill effects.. and these non e85 cars were sold in states that had differing emissions etc or something along those lines.. all of the information out there is heresay from what i have seen, i am after someone who can confirm stuff like 'the injectors in my 2011 are green, and it's E85 stickerd, and my buddy's are yellow, he doesn't have an E85 sticker in his fuel lid'

things like that.

thanks.
Mat

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Old 01-14-2015, 06:02 PM
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Re: 3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

I believe all 3.6L Pentastar engines are flex fuel E85 capable.

The big question is why anyone would use E85 in the first place. It reduces engine power and lowers fuel economy.
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:50 PM
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Re: 3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

If that does then Jeep needs to seriously look at their tuning - E85 has many many benefits over normal 98 RON Petrol.

Just trying to get some facts and info that is all.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:00 PM
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Re: 3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty.c View Post
If that does then Jeep needs to seriously look at their tuning - E85 has many many benefits over normal 98 RON Petrol.

Just trying to get some facts and info that is all.
Understood. I think the reason they don't tune for it is what impact that would have on overall emission standards they have to meet.

The problem is that E85 (at least here in the US) was touted for reducing our dependence on oil and reducing pollutants put into the air... kind of a green, feel-good thing that our politicians like to promote to give voters the impression that they really care and are doing something.

When flex-fuel engines first started appearing, none of the lower power / fuel economy issues with E85 were apparent unless you were the kind of person who read the tiny footnotes buried in the sales brochures, or you found out the hard way by using E85. This is not just a Jeep issue... all flex-fuel engines here have this issue.

Starting a couple of years or so ago, dealers are required to have a sticker on the windshield indicating the approximate range on a tank of gas for both regular unleaded and E85 fuels. The difference is significant and pretty much wipes out any gain from the lower cost of E85.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:14 PM
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Re: 3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

fair enough, is the E85 available 105RON?

yeh it's definitly a catch 22!

GM Holden over here have nearly a whole fleet available on E85, and they state firmly that from small 3L v6, to 6L and 6.2L v8's exceeding 300kw, there will be no noticeable drop in performance,

ofcourse due you having to use more of the fuel, the price at the pump must be less enough to take up the economy difference, which will no doubt be worse on E85.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:27 PM
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Re: 3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty.c View Post
fair enough, is the E85 available 105RON?

yeh it's definitly a catch 22!

GM Holden over here have nearly a whole fleet available on E85, and they state firmly that from small 3L v6, to 6L and 6.2L v8's exceeding 300kw, there will be no noticeable drop in performance,

ofcourse due you having to use more of the fuel, the price at the pump must be less enough to take up the economy difference, which will no doubt be worse on E85.
I'm not sure what the RON is here. And I haven't looked at the price differential in awhile. In my area E85 is only about 20-25 cents/gal cheaper than regular unleaded. Not enough to justify using it.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:39 PM
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Re: 3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

thanks Bones very helpful info
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:44 PM
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Re: 3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

You're welcome. Good luck!
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Old 01-15-2015, 06:57 PM
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Re: 3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

For their E85 flex fuel engines GM uses larger capacity fuel injectors amongst other changes. They use different programming (eg timing etc) when running E85 fuel. Their computers recognize a “fuelling event” by an increase in fuel tank level, then the computer varies the fuelling rate while monitoring the exhaust oxygen sensor. After about 300 revolutions they can estimate the ethanol content of the fuel and set the program accordingly. In this way there is no performance drop with E85, but there is a large fuel economy decrease.
I assume that Jeep uses a similar strategy, but I do not really know. I do not intend to experiment with E85.
By the way, in many areas of North America E85 almost never contains 85% ethanol. In even moderately cool weather the %ethanol is reduced to increase volatility which is needed to start. In winter the ethanol can be reduced to as low as 50%. One could not quote an octane rating with this kind of variability.
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Old 01-16-2015, 12:16 AM
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Re: 3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

thanks CDlund - this is info that many of us already know, but it's good to have it all in the one place.

is there anyone that works at Jeep? like a parts interpreter who can confirm if any of the parts are different? like surley the part # for fuel pumps would be different, or the chassis diagrams for the cars would differ slightly with the addition of an in take ethanol sensor etc..
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Old 01-17-2015, 12:10 AM
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Re: 3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

My 2014 flex fuel engine is listed on the build sheet as Code ERB 3.6L V6 24V VVT Engine. No mention of Flex Fuel, which makes me think that all 3.6L V6 engines are E85 compatible. If there are no non-flex fuel versions then there will be no corresponding part numbers.
If I am right that Jeep uses a flex fuel strategy similar to GM then there will be no ethanol sensor in E85 compatible Jeeps.
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Old 01-17-2015, 11:42 AM
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Re: 3.6L E85 Models vs Non - E85 models

Look at page 498 onward in the owners manual. The E85 info is mixed in. Not sure if this manual is NA only or worldwide.


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