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  #85  
Old 05-19-2012, 10:26 PM
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Re: 3 kids

Given the choice of just those two vehicles, with that many young kids, I'd probably go for the Durango.
But if Chrysler still made an AWD Grand Caravan, then I'd go back to that.
I had two of them, and was bummed when they stopped making them.
In 2006 I went to the Pacifica AWD, and then last November my GC Overland.

I'm super happy with the GC, but my kids are grown and moved away, so I don't need the room of the Durango (or larger).
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  #86  
Old 05-19-2012, 10:51 PM
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Re: 3 kids

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Originally Posted by Smooth1 View Post
ROTFLMAO!
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  #87  
Old 05-20-2012, 06:14 AM
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Re: 3 kids

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
No answers for my question i my previous response?
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  #88  
Old 05-20-2012, 01:43 PM
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Re: 3 kids

I didn't read your previous responses, sorry.

I guess you must mean the last line in your last post that wasn't directed at me?

The answer is you wouldn't have to put them in the third row if you didn't want to, youd have a much more spacious and adjustable second row in a van, and you'd have the flexibility of being able to carry people other than you and your kids, and when your kids are older they may appreciate the additional space.
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  #89  
Old 05-21-2012, 05:09 AM
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Re: 3 kids

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
I didn't read your previous responses, sorry.

I guess you must mean the last line in your last post that wasn't directed at me?

The answer is you wouldn't have to put them in the third row if you didn't want to, youd have a much more spacious and adjustable second row in a van, and you'd have the flexibility of being able to carry people other than you and your kids, and when your kids are older they may appreciate the additional space.
Understandable on the flexibility..

But, let's say I like my kids 3 across.. How do u get other passengers to the back seat in a van? Climb over the second row? Climb in thru the rear hatch? You may say well if your hauling more people you could adjust where your kids are located in the van.. Well like I previously stated the PITA is installing the car seats and the last thing I want to be doing is uninstalling/reinstalling them all the time.. Just another reason why I stayed away from a van.. Also, with the third row up your Odyessy specs show more cargo room, but what is more usable? I would say the jeeps deeper cargo would be for me..just cause te cubic ft capacity is higher doesn't always mean its as usable of space...right? Something could have 100cubic ft of cargo area bit what if is only 1ft wide? Not sure how deep the van is between the hatch and back seat but like yousaid it is not as deep as your jjeep.. To me that would be less usable space especially when it comes to strollers and stuff.. Hell I was able to fit our luggage and a kids picnic table in the jeep easily once(didn't have my truck that day).. If we had a van with all seats being used there is no way I coulda laid a kids picnic table flat in the rear cargo area..so then I woulda been shuffling car seats around to make things fit..

Oh, and lets not forget the AWD aspect.. I live in chambersburg, not too far from gaithersburg...our winters are not too bad..can be but for the most part not too bad.. BUT. i am from the johnstown, pa area in the mtns. I NEED 4x4 for our frequent trips there to see family(plus if I can ever find a job there we are moving back).. The odyessy as far as I know doesnt offer awd correct? ok so that is out. The sienna does offer awd.. so when I was shopping, i liked the sienna SE(sporty looking, nice wheels, good styling for a van), well that is not offered in awd, plus it lacked the ability to have 3 across seating in the second row due to a center console included in that trim which negated a middle seat.. I dislike the looks of the awd siennas(plus read negatives on getting carseats in the far back of siennas on the carseat forums).. ok so moving on to the chrysler offerings, they don't do it for me for looks at all..they look like a box on wheels(or that scion that looks like a box on wheels). plus, I wouldn't feel comfortable in a lower awd vehicle going up my inlaws LONG unplowed driveway in the winter which sometimes has over a foot of snow and drifts to bash through. WOuldn't bashin drifts be so much more fun in a jeep than a van? I think so.. I also have been known to take my truck out on the beach on the OBX when we go..wouldn't want to do that in a minivan either..
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  #90  
Old 05-21-2012, 08:16 AM
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Re: 3 kids

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
Thats one of my very few gripes about the GC, it actually has VERY little cargo room without putting the rear seats down. I had an Explorer years ago that was much larger in that regard. The floor on the Jeep is so high, the ceiling low, and the sides so thick that it really compresses the cargo area.

Its easily worst in class by that regard, I just looked up for comparison's sake a 4Runner and it has 13 cu/ft more cargo room in the back.
I have a Pathfinder right now and have parked by a buddy's WK2 and moved stuff from my hatch area to his. The Jeep is quite a bit smaller. The only reason I'm comfortable making the switch is that I have other options. The Wife has a '11 Hondy Ody for normal family travel, and I own a 5'x10' ramp gate utility trailer and a 4'x6' enclosed trailer.

I figure that for 90% of my daily use the smaller Jeep is just fine, for the other 10% I have other options. Personally, after beating up the 'nice' interior on my Pathfinder after I bought it (didn't own trailers then) moving things around, I'd rather use the trailers and keep the interior in good shape.
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  #91  
Old 05-21-2012, 09:10 AM
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Re: 3 kids

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmitty10
But, let's say I like my kids 3 across.. How do u get other passengers to the back seat in a van? Climb over the second row? Climb in thru the rear hatch?
The front seats (at least on the Odyssey, and I know on a few of the other offerings because I've seen the commercials) will slide up and tilt with the carseat installed, so you can still access the third row.

The third row seats also flip and fold 50/50, and you can easily access the third row with one of the seats folded down then fold it back up to sit. Not ideal, but people can still access the third row.

Its MUCH harder in a 3 row SUV, which is why I think a Minivan is a much better choice.

Quote:
Also, with the third row up your Odyessy specs show more cargo room, but what is more usable? I would say the jeeps deeper cargo would be for me..
Like I said, I have direct experience loading both. I would say for strollers and luggage, the Odyssey's compartment with all three rows up is MORE convenient than the Jeep's compartment with only two rows, mostly due to the narrow nature of the Jeep's cargo floor, and the high floor. I find anything long in the Jeep is awkward to load. The Odyssey is low, easy to load, and its obviously designed to carry strollers specifically. The area from the back of the third row to the door is probably 3-3.5 feet.

Plus...you're carrying two more people.

Now, if you drop the third row, which you would do 90% of the time, the Odyssey has easily 3 times the usable luggage space with a flatter, wider, lower load floor, and much greater headroom allowing you to carry more stuff without impeding your view out the back.

Quote:
If we had a van with all seats being used there is no way I coulda laid a kids picnic table flat in the rear cargo area..so then I woulda been shuffling car seats around to make things fit..
But see that statement makes no sense, because you would not have been carrying additional people and would have had much more room in the van with the third row stowed.

Anyways, if the picnic table fit in the back of the Jeep, it would fit in the Odyssey just on its side even with the third row up.

Quote:
To me that would be less usable space especially when it comes to strollers and stuff..
Remember, a minivan is designed SPECIFICALLY to carry children. Every cargo hold is designed specifically with strollers in mind. The seats are designed specifically with carseats in mind. Not the case with the Jeep.

Quote:
Oh, and lets not forget the AWD aspect.. I live in chambersburg, not too far from gaithersburg...our winters are not too bad..can be but for the most part not too bad.. BUT. i am from the johnstown, pa area in the mtns. I NEED 4x4 for our frequent trips there to see family(plus if I can ever find a job there we are moving back).. The odyessy as far as I know doesnt offer awd correct? ok so that is out.
I travel routinely to WV where there is a lot of snow. When I was a kid we did it in a RWD van. I've travelled in the Mtns of PA and MD in FWD sedans in the snow going skiing. 4WD is nice, makes that a lot more fun and less stressful, but you don't *need* 4WD really when traveling in the mid-atlantic area. Don't know what to say about your parents driveway, that would be tough, but to ignore all the benefits of a particular vehicle to your everyday life because a couple times a year you might have to contend with a snowy driveway doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, especially when you do have another 4WD vehicle you could drive on specific trips where you know accessing that driveway would be difficult.
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  #92  
Old 05-21-2012, 09:27 AM
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Re: 3 kids

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
The front seats (at least on the Odyssey, and I know on a few of the other offerings because I've seen the commercials) will slide up and tilt with the carseat installed, so you can still access the third row.

The third row seats also flip and fold 50/50, and you can easily access the third row with one of the seats folded down then fold it back up to sit. Not ideal, but people can still access the third row.

Its MUCH harder in a 3 row SUV, which is why I think a Minivan is a much better choice.



Like I said, I have direct experience loading both. I would say for strollers and luggage, the Odyssey's compartment with all three rows up is MORE convenient than the Jeep's compartment with only two rows, mostly due to the narrow nature of the Jeep's cargo floor, and the high floor. I find anything long in the Jeep is awkward to load. The Odyssey is low, easy to load, and its obviously designed to carry strollers specifically. The area from the back of the third row to the door is probably 3-3.5 feet.

Plus...you're carrying two more people.

Now, if you drop the third row, which you would do 90% of the time, the Odyssey has easily 3 times the usable luggage space with a flatter, wider, lower load floor, and much greater headroom allowing you to carry more stuff without impeding your view out the back.



But see that statement makes no sense, because you would not have been carrying additional people and would have had much more room in the van with the third row stowed.

Anyways, if the picnic table fit in the back of the Jeep, it would fit in the Odyssey just on its side even with the third row up.



Remember, a minivan is designed SPECIFICALLY to carry children. Every cargo hold is designed specifically with strollers in mind. The seats are designed specifically with carseats in mind. Not the case with the Jeep.



I travel routinely to WV where there is a lot of snow. When I was a kid we did it in a RWD van. I've travelled in the Mtns of PA and MD in FWD sedans in the snow going skiing. 4WD is nice, makes that a lot more fun and less stressful, but you don't *need* 4WD really when traveling in the mid-atlantic area. Don't know what to say about your parents driveway, that would be tough, but to ignore all the benefits of a particular vehicle to your everyday life because a couple times a year you might have to contend with a snowy driveway doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, especially when you do have another 4WD vehicle you could drive on specific trips where you know accessing that driveway would be difficult.
4x4 is needed when you don't cancel plans becaus of snow. Alot of people do.. I actually love driving in it.. We took a trip to Pittsburgh to visit family a couple yrs ago and the entire trip I had the truck in 4x4 because there was 4-10" of snow on all te roads.. Would never have attempted the trip in a fwd car/van.. I want the piece of mind of 4x4 all the time.. Obviously if it's just a couple inches of snow fwd is fine.. Been there done that.. Been stuck in my gf's(now wife's) driveway many times without 4x4.. I really don't want to walk all 3 kids and luggage up a half mile unplowed driveway..ever.. I know what it's like around here compared to my hometown as far as how people drive in the snow also.. People here are clueless..cancel school/plans for a dusting.. Back in jtown school is in sessio with 6" on te roads.. And that is where I want to move and live and would need 2 4x4s in the winter.. I would not want to be stranded anywhere in the cold stuck in a minivan with my kids.. Peice of mind..I will sacrifice cargo/people area for a good 4x4
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  #93  
Old 05-21-2012, 10:04 AM
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Re: 3 kids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdsmitty10 View Post
4x4 is needed when you don't cancel plans becaus of snow.
I've never cancelled plans because of snow, whether I have 4WD or not. Obviously I want a 4WD because I bought one, but I have been many places in FWD or even RWD cars that included driving through more than a "couple inches" of snow. You just have to know what you're doing, and you have to know when you need to use chains or snow tires. You put a set of good snow tires on a FWD or even especially a RWD vehicle...it can be a beast in the snow.

Quote:
We took a trip to Pittsburgh to visit family a couple yrs ago and the entire trip I had the truck in 4x4 because there was 4-10" of snow on all te roads.. Would never have attempted the trip in a fwd car/van..
A long time ago I drove to WV in the middle of the night during a blizzard in a RWD sedan, 4-10" of snow on the ground, mountains, jacknifed trucks. I had to stop and get chains...it took a long time...and sucked...but I made it. Couple years ago we went skiing with my cousin and his wife, before we got the Jeep, in his FWD Jeep Patriot, driving through Western, MD in a serious snowstorm with 5+ inches on the road. We made it.

Quote:
Back in jtown school is in sessio with 6" on te roads.. And that is where I want to move and live and would need 2 4x4s in the winter..
I'd want 4x4s in the winter there too, but you don't "need" them. The weather is similar in southern WV where I'm from...but there are people without 4WD and they get around. I have family in upstate NY...no 4WD...they get around.

LOL, all of a sudden you've gone from trying to marginalize me to trying to justify yourself to me. You don't need to do either.
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  #94  
Old 05-21-2012, 10:12 AM
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Re: 3 kids

I'm having conversation man..about how my choice to have 3 kids in a jeep was better to me than having a minivan.. And giving you my reasoning why.. I know u don't need 4x4.. But it's a nice thing to have.. I never bought a winter tire or snow chain and never will..4x4 does it for me.. I chose the jeep.. In a couple yrs it may be something else who knows..
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:20 AM
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Re: 3 kids

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdsmitty10 View Post
I know u don't need 4x4.. But it's a nice thing to have..
When you make a statement...stand by it. Several places in your previous posts you asserted that 4WD was a REQUIREMENT...now you know you don't need it? Here they are:

Quote:
4x4 is needed when you don't cancel plans becaus of snow.
Quote:
Would never have attempted the trip in a fwd car/van..
Quote:
And that is where I want to move and live and would need 2 4x4s in the winter..
Quote:
I NEED 4x4 for our frequent trips there to see family
So which is it, do you NEED it or is it nice to have? Three rows of seats are nice to have, additional cargo room is nice to have. More flexible seating and storage are nice to have too. In the mid-atlantic area you do not need 4WD to get around safely, there are other options. Hell, even in the northeast you don't need 4WD.

Quote:
I never bought a winter tire or snow chain and never will..4x4 does it for me..
Personally, if I lived in an area that gets that much snow...I would buy snow tires even for the Jeep. 4WD is not infallible, and the OEM tires aren't even SUV tires.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:31 AM
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Re: 3 kids

Read this article:

http://www.insideline.com/features/t...ving-tips.html

Excerpt:

Quote:
Snow tires trump 4WD, AWD, traction control and stability control. A front-drive economy sedan on four top-quality snow tires will go more places than the best 4WD vehicle on all-season tires. An AWD- and stability control-equipped sport sedan on high-performance summer tires will get stuck on a snow cone spilled on an August highway. AWD and computer driver assists can only manage available traction, they can't increase grip.
http://photo-hh.blogspot.com/2008/12...ersus-4wd.html

Not a direct source but it quotes a C&D test done some years ago comparing cars with snow tires to 4x4 SUVs.

Excerpt:

Quote:
Four-wheel drive helps get cars going. When it comes time to brake or change direction on low-traction surfaces, the extra mass of the driveline becomes more of a detriment. Folks who live in hilly places that get snow may need the climbing capability of four-wheel drive...Almost everyone else will most likely be better served by using winter tires. Acceleration takes longer, but in an emergency, the handling behavior and improved lateral grip of two-wheel drive and winter tires -- in the slippery stuff -- are the safer bets.
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/...jsp?techid=122

Excerpt:

Quote:
However, it is important to remember that while the all-wheel/four-wheel drive vehicle's ability to accelerate in slippery conditions provides a lot of confidence, it doesn't really offer any unique advantage when the vehicle has to stop or turn. This is because the other vehicles also use all four tires to provide braking and cornering traction. Since four-wheel drive vehicles actually weigh more than their two-wheel drive counterparts, bringing them to a stop or turning a corner actually requires more traction.

So, whether your vehicle has anti-lock brakes, traction control, a vehicle stability system, four-wheel drive or all-wheel drive, it is your tires that provide the real traction. Obviously, the more tire traction these systems have to work with the better. Since most vehicles (including light trucks) are originally equipped with all-season tires, optimizing these systems' capabilities on snow and ice requires installing winter tires.
Plus in some states during snow emergencies you MUST use chains or snow tires even on a 4WD vehicle...
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