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  #25  
Old 07-03-2015, 08:53 AM
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Re: Anyone Here Use Fuel Additives ?

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Originally Posted by MDBones View Post
That's what your engine computer is for.
All the computer is going to do is retard the timing to compensate for the reduction in octane the engine would require to run normally. That WILL downgrade your engines performance. Why pay $3,200.00 more for a HEMI engine, so you can save a few cents a gallon running lower octane cheaper fuel in it? That's false economy if I ever heard of it.

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  #26  
Old 07-03-2015, 08:59 AM
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Re: Anyone Here Use Fuel Additives ?

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Originally Posted by MDBones View Post
5.7L Engine — If Equipped

This engine is designed to meet all emissions regulations and provide satisfactory fuel economy and performance when using high-quality unleaded gasoline having an octane range of 87 to 89.
Anyone who buys gasoline today has absolutely zero idea or control of the "quality" of said fuel they are purchasing. You're at the total mercy of the station, along with the condition of it's storage tanks...... About all you do have control of is the octane rating which is posted and certified by the D.O.T.
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  #27  
Old 07-03-2015, 09:11 AM
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Re: Anyone Here Use Fuel Additives ?

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Originally Posted by billt View Post
The biggest misconception in using a higher octane rated fuel is that you'll get more power, along with better gas mileage as a result. None of that is true.
Not totally true anymore. My Ford 2.0 is rated for 240 hp and the owners manual says to use 87. But when you read the fine print it states that the 240 hp is attained using 93 octane. The higher octane itself provides no more power, but it does force the computer to advance the timing to avoid pinging. That provides a little more power. But the computer can only advance the timing so far, so at some point higher octane is ... pointless.

I would not be surprised if Jeep is doing the same thing by saying you can use 87 but we recommend 89. You probably need the 89 to advance the timing enough to seek out the 360 hp.


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  #28  
Old 07-03-2015, 09:19 AM
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Re: Anyone Here Use Fuel Additives ?

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Originally Posted by billt View Post
All the computer is going to do is retard the timing to compensate for the reduction in octane the engine would require to run normally. That WILL downgrade your engines performance. Why pay $3,200.00 more for a HEMI engine, so you can save a few cents a gallon running lower octane cheaper fuel in it? That's false economy if I ever heard of it.
Spending money for a grade of gas that's not recommended by the manufacturer does not make economic sense. My money's going to be on the manufacturer's recommendation. These engines were designed for this grade of gas and they've done far more extensive testing on this than you or I ever will. I highly doubt you'd be able to really notice a difference on today's vehicles.

I can't remember when the last time was that I experienced spark knock / detonation in a vehicle. 1970-80's? Never in any of the GC's I've owned... and I've never used anything other than 87 octane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billt View Post
Anyone who buys gasoline today has absolutely zero idea or control of the "quality" of said fuel they are purchasing. You're at the total mercy of the station, along with the condition of it's storage tanks...... About all you do have control of is the octane rating which is posted and certified by the D.O.T.
Like you say, you can control the octane level you choose to stick in your tank... but you're still at the mercy of the station and the condition of its storage tanks. You'll know soon enough if you get some bad gas... the octane rating won't matter.

If you want to spend the extra money based on your experience with your 91 Ford and outdated computer controls, then who am I to tell you differently? It's your money... go for it.

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  #29  
Old 07-03-2015, 09:21 AM
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Re: Anyone Here Use Fuel Additives ?

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
The higher octane itself provides no more power, but it does force the computer to advance the timing to avoid pinging. That provides a little more power.
True. With todays computer controlled engines that vary timing automatically, you are assured the full power your engine is capable of by using the higher octane fuel. In that regard the lower octane fuel "forces" the engine to run at a lower level of performance than it is capable of in order to compensate.


If you pay extra for a high performance engine, the only way you can be assured it is running at it's full performance capability, is to run a higher octane fuel.
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  #30  
Old 07-03-2015, 09:30 AM
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Re: Anyone Here Use Fuel Additives ?

so to comment on the original topic, I use techron concentrate few times a year, always have on every non diesel car Ive owned. First time I tried it on the capless Jeep I went at it weak style and spilled a bit, but learned my lesson and next time just jammed it right in quickly and it works without spilling. You have to go in with the filler neck on the high side first then just rotate it once you have broken the seal.

Im a fan of techron, and it seems that its really the only additive that gets respect across the board from weekend mechanics all the way up to more serious folks. If I recall, some of the actual manufacturer branded 'fuel system cleaner' that you can buy at parts departments is just rebottled techron.
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  #31  
Old 07-03-2015, 09:44 AM
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Re: Anyone Here Use Fuel Additives ?

Here is the funny thing about gas. Some years back here in Phoenix, we had a main gasoline delivery pipe fracture that delivered gas here from Tucson. It happened in the middle of the desert somewhere. Within 48 hours 75% of the gas stations here in town were dry and out of fuel. Anyone who's lived here for a decade or more will remember it.

It didn't matter what brand. There was yellow tape across the pumps of most every station in town. So how can the gas from Mobil be any different than the gas from Shell if it all came from the same pipe?
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  #32  
Old 07-03-2015, 09:48 AM
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Re: Anyone Here Use Fuel Additives ?

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Originally Posted by billt View Post
Here is the funny thing about gas. Some years back here in Phoenix, we had a main gasoline delivery pipe fracture that delivered gas here from Tucson. It happened in the middle of the desert somewhere. Within 48 hours 75% of the gas stations here in town were dry and out of fuel. Anyone who's lived here for a decade or more will remember it.

It didn't matter what brand. There was yellow tape across the pumps of most every station in town. So how can the gas from Mobil be any different than the gas from Shell if it all came from the same pipe?
That's true... there are relatively few refineries here but plenty of brand names on the pumps. If those refineries are refining gas to a certain quality standard mandated by law then it comes down to what you said earlier about stations and the conditions of their tanks... not the octane rating.
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  #33  
Old 07-03-2015, 10:04 AM
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Re: Anyone Here Use Fuel Additives ?

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Originally Posted by MDBones View Post
If those refineries are refining gas to a certain quality standard mandated by law then it comes down to what you said earlier about stations and the conditions of their tanks... not the octane rating.
The higher octane rating, the better chance your high performance V-8 can run at it's optimum timing, and deliver full power in the process. This regardless if it is, "V-Power" Shell, or Chevron with "Techron". There is no getting around that fact. The octane rating itself doesn't provide the power. It's allows your engine to produce it by running at the level it was designed to in the first place.
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  #34  
Old 07-03-2015, 10:19 AM
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Re: Anyone Here Use Fuel Additives ?

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Originally Posted by billt View Post
The higher octane rating, the better chance your high performance V-8 can run at it's optimum timing, and deliver full power in the process. This regardless if it is, "V-Power" Shell, or Chevron with "Techron". There is no getting around that fact. The octane rating itself doesn't provide the power. It's allows your engine to produce it by running at the level it was designed to in the first place.
Mid-grade 89 enables that. No need for 93.
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  #35  
Old 07-03-2015, 10:20 AM
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There are few refineries so many stations will have the same base gas but the addative packages in that base gas are different from different brand names. A tank of shell is different from a tank of exxon though they may have the same base gas. I dont know the logistics of when those addative packages are injected but the final product we pump is different from brand to brand and why you should steer clear of no name minimart gas unless you know whats in it. May have a decent adative package or may have minimal bit of junk, roll the dice. You are buying an additive package when you buy a brand, similar probably but there are differences. There is a website called top tier gas or something like that lists the brands that use a certain minimum additive package to be considered top tier. Most big names are on the list but surprisingly not all. Sunoco was absent last i checked which surprised me as it is a fairly big name around here. You wont see the cornner minimart on there its nice to help out the local mom and pop business but id ask whats in there (or lack of) if you are a regular.
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  #36  
Old 07-03-2015, 10:41 AM
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Re: Anyone Here Use Fuel Additives ?

Octane aside, my main concern has always been ethanol. Its hard to get around it especially for 89. Occasionally I use Shell 91 non-ethanol to throw it in the mix a little.
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