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  #13  
Old 05-07-2015, 01:21 PM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

Zero down...never make a "Capital Cost Reduction" payment (down payment) outside of Taxes, Fees, Title, etc., as required by your state's laws. You're just pre-paying part of the lease payments and it's not really going to affect the actual cost of the deal to you. They will ask for the down-payment to make the monthly cost look lower, but in the end when you add things up, it's not from a total expenditure point of view.

Leasing does work for some folks so it's a valid way to acquire (the use) of a JGC for those folks. But only if the residual is high and the money factor is a deal financially favorable.

I used to lease vehicles. But that stopped when my mileage creeped up and other types of responsibilities came into the picture.

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  #14  
Old 05-07-2015, 02:40 PM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by protect1989 View Post
How do you find the invoice price of the car vs the MSRP?

To be more specific, below is the link of the vehicle im looking at
New 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee For Sale | Grapevine TX

The MSRP is 44,290. Of course they advertise all the discounts online of which the average person is probably eligible for 1 of. So how do you find the Invoice of the vehicle so that you can apply the additional $2,500 jeep is offering?
Wow, you never see 4x2 around here, I was wondering how your Overland MSRP was so low!

Right now I'm using TrueCar. I build out what is equal to, or approximate to what is on the dealer's lot. So for that one, MSRP of $44290, it actually isn't showing the invoice?!, which would be about 4% lower ($42518?). But $42845 is the average paid. Here is the sheet:

grapevine tx overland.png

It is suggesting you should save $2900 off MSRP, which $2500+ is about what I've seen suggested on any model right now. TrueCar is supposedly not including incentives in that.

So if that $3460 discount isn't including the other incentives right now, it's a great deal. But if it is including the $2000 loyalty and return lessee incentives, thats only a $1460 discount instead of TrueCar's suggested $2900.

You want a good deal: average $42845 minus the incentives you qualify for, hopefully $2500 = $40345. At face value, their posted price on the internet is pretty good. If their "discount" is legit, you should really be looking at $40830 - $2500 = $38330. But that price is sounding so low I'm not believing that the "discount" doesn't include the other $2000 already.

Arg, it's always such a numbers game. I'll give you the advice that I keep giving myself "Don't get your hopes up, the prices are never that cheap. And then there's taxes and fees." And if they are cheap, let's just enjoy the shock!
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  #15  
Old 05-07-2015, 03:30 PM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBurton View Post
Wow, you never see 4x2 around here, I was wondering how your Overland MSRP was so low!

Right now I'm using TrueCar. I build out what is equal to, or approximate to what is on the dealer's lot. So for that one, MSRP of $44290, it actually isn't showing the invoice?!, which would be about 4% lower ($42518?). But $42845 is the average paid. Here is the sheet:

Attachment 55901

It is suggesting you should save $2900 off MSRP, which $2500+ is about what I've seen suggested on any model right now. TrueCar is supposedly not including incentives in that.

So if that $3460 discount isn't including the other incentives right now, it's a great deal. But if it is including the $2000 loyalty and return lessee incentives, thats only a $1460 discount instead of TrueCar's suggested $2900.

You want a good deal: average $42845 minus the incentives you qualify for, hopefully $2500 = $40345. At face value, their posted price on the internet is pretty good. If their "discount" is legit, you should really be looking at $40830 - $2500 = $38330. But that price is sounding so low I'm not believing that the "discount" doesn't include the other $2000 already.

Arg, it's always such a numbers game. I'll give you the advice that I keep giving myself "Don't get your hopes up, the prices are never that cheap. And then there's taxes and fees." And if they are cheap, let's just enjoy the shock!
If you live in Texas, remind me to buy you a beer sometime. Thats was incredible.

I have a call in to the dealership to try and get more information. Im trying to deal with the internet sales manager but their response to everything is "Why dont you come in so we can discuss it". Guaranteed three hours of time wasted right there. Ill keep you posted on how it progresses
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  #16  
Old 05-07-2015, 03:48 PM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by protect1989 View Post
If you live in Texas, remind me to buy you a beer sometime. Thats was incredible.

I have a call in to the dealership to try and get more information. Im trying to deal with the internet sales manager but their response to everything is "Why dont you come in so we can discuss it". Guaranteed three hours of time wasted right there. Ill keep you posted on how it progresses
That's total B.S. If you are dealing with a real Internet Sales Manager, then you shouldn't even need to get on the phone. You should be able to get everything you need on pricing via email. That's what I do with all the Internet Sales Managers - when it asks for my phone I don't give it and I say in the notes field on the website "email only" and if you find my number and call me you just lost the deal before it happened.

The only time I go to the dealership is to actually drive the ride, and possibly to talk shop if I already know the sales rep. I just did it a few days ago, and went into the Jeep dealer about 15 miles away to drive a 2015 Summit (this was the 3rd time I've driven one over the past 6 months). This particular dealership is so low key they don't even work on commission anymore; just salaried sales staff so they are totally relaxed and chill. When it comes time for me to buy that will be one of my first places on my list if they are willing to play ball on price.

You should tell them you won't waste your time coming unless they have already given you a legitimate firm quote via email, because like you said, they will burn a few hours of your day by trying to get you to walk out with keys to the new ride that day.
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  #17  
Old 05-07-2015, 03:55 PM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBurton View Post
Wow, you never see 4x2 around here, I was wondering how your Overland MSRP was so low!

Right now I'm using TrueCar. I build out what is equal to, or approximate to what is on the dealer's lot. So for that one, MSRP of $44290, it actually isn't showing the invoice?!, which would be about 4% lower ($42518?). But $42845 is the average paid. Here is the sheet:

Attachment 55901

It is suggesting you should save $2900 off MSRP, which $2500+ is about what I've seen suggested on any model right now. TrueCar is supposedly not including incentives in that.

So if that $3460 discount isn't including the other incentives right now, it's a great deal. But if it is including the $2000 loyalty and return lessee incentives, thats only a $1460 discount instead of TrueCar's suggested $2900.

You want a good deal: average $42845 minus the incentives you qualify for, hopefully $2500 = $40345. At face value, their posted price on the internet is pretty good. If their "discount" is legit, you should really be looking at $40830 - $2500 = $38330. But that price is sounding so low I'm not believing that the "discount" doesn't include the other $2000 already.

Arg, it's always such a numbers game. I'll give you the advice that I keep giving myself "Don't get your hopes up, the prices are never that cheap. And then there's taxes and fees." And if they are cheap, let's just enjoy the shock!
Just got off the phone with the dealership. The "discounts" they were mentioning on the website had nothing to do with jeep. Those are specific dealer websites.

This means that your math before was accurate and hopefully looking at a MSRP of $38,330 (or close to it). Im obviously not holding my breath as I am sure they will weasel out of it. But i sent her an email so everything is in writing. Waiting for the response now
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  #18  
Old 05-07-2015, 04:26 PM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

Hi protect ask dealer to send you the lease workup sheet. It will have all the figures in print. That way there is no BS when you do decide to purchase. As was said never ever say how much you want to pay monthly that is the worst thing you could do. Here are 2 pics of my lease work ups with 1500.00 below invoice that were given to me without even asking. Any rebates are and should be applied after the selling price is negotiated. Also the sheets will show you the residual and money factor numbers which are equally important in a lease. Hope this helps you.
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Old 05-07-2015, 04:27 PM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

Sorry forgot to load the picsImageUploadedByJeepGarage1431034032.476995.jpgImageUploadedByJeepGarage1431034044.135156.jpg


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  #20  
Old 05-07-2015, 04:38 PM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

Also check out that group buy thread here for a dealer in TX, they are claiming 5.5% below invoice which is a couple hundred less than what I figured above if these guys are legit, and apparently it is trouble free for most people. That's not enough savings for me to travel 1000s of miles, so neither is a beer, but I appreciate the gesture. I hope my numbers work out for you, I put some stock in TrueCar being a legit source, it's just whether dealers play along. If I can't get them to on my purchase, I think I probably will buy directly through TrueCar to avoid further hassle.
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Old 05-08-2015, 11:39 AM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

The dealership makes the most on the backend of the deal, mostly when buying. Leasing you're not going to need rust protection, sound proof, extended warranty, when I did a lease they still asked about these but joked, "why would you do any of these you're just giving it back."

But if you choose to buy, the back room is where the real battle is won/lost, getting invoice price etc was easy. Have your financing arranged before you walk in, have the extended warranty quoted before hand, have your trade in appraised and blue book print out prior. They gave me the hard sell on all the fancy packages, but ended up just buying an overpriced hand wax full detail next time I came in, which satisfied the sales guy. I would've liked to have negotiated a service agreement as with Max Care agreement, service needs to be performed by a FCA service dept.
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Old 05-08-2015, 12:01 PM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

FYI I have been emailing a few local dealers today, they all have Overlands in the $47200 range, virtually if not identical. I am already getting discounts in the $3900 range without even stepping on a lot, this is slightly better than 5.5% below invoice. And it is before the $500 cash and the further $2000 incentives I would have coming. One is posted directly on a website, so I've got to be able to beat that. Now I'm going to have to fight for trade-in value, and that looks like it can't be done until they see it.
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Old 05-08-2015, 01:00 PM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

I have never, and never will understand leasing. To me the entire matter seems ridiculous. First off, you have to give them a "Acquisition Fee". Which is basically a down payment you'll never see again. Then you have to pay an ungodly monthly payment for the length of the lease. Then, after all of that you have to give the car back. Then you'll either be walking home, or else you have to lease another one and the whole convoluted process starts all over again.

And God help you if you go over on the mileage they allow you, (which is very little in the first place), or else you'll be assessed at some ridiculous rate per mile. Same deal if you put a scratch or dent in the paint, or a stain or cut in the seats or carpeting.

I'm just not seeing any advantage to leasing what so ever. It's basically renting, nothing more. All with a lot of strings attached directly to your wallet. All of it favors the dealer. No one leased 40 years ago, except for companies that had enough of a tax incentive to do so. For the average person it made no sense. Nor does it now. When you figure what it costs per mile to lease, most people would run, not walk away from the dealer.

You're better off to go to the airport and rent from a budget rental agency with unlimited mileage. You can drive all the mileage you want. Pay no "Acquisition Fee", and get a different car every couple of weeks. And you'll be in and out a hell of a lot quicker. I think all of this has taken hold only because so many Americans are trapped in being so cash poor, and or are saddled with bad credit today.
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Old 05-08-2015, 01:45 PM
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Re: Asking for help on how to not get ripped off.

^^^ billt ...

... here we go again! LOL

The lease/buy debate. To cut to the chase and stay on topic - which there have been some very helpful posts on this thread - leasing makes sense for some people, not for others. It depends on a multitude of factors. Your situation may vary. I personally have never leased a vehicle but find the information interesting.
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