Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 -

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #1  
Old 10-04-2016, 02:46 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,715
Thanks: 38
Thanked 181 Times in 141 Posts
Rep Power: 76184
mswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond repute
Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

This thread is really to discuss how to get the most out of Stop/Start. If you don't like it, there are other thread to b$tch about it.

So I'd appreciate it if this is not yet another advertisement thread for OBD port gadget to override the Stop/Stop setting. There is already a few threads discussing that tool.

I really don't mind the Auto Stop most of the time. But if I know I'm going to immediately start again. It's just a wasted cycle. But if I'm sitting at a very long light it does save gas. I also don't like it stopping if I just worked the engine hard and it needs to run to cool things down. Other than those two cases it works fine.

After having this for 1500 miles now I noticed a couple things I have not seen mentioned.

1) The Brake Pedal has more than one switch (or poles). The Auto Stop is NOT triggered on the brake light switch. The Auto Stop is at a different position on the Pedal. Now this could just be mechanical tolerances and some instances might Actuate the Brakes Light, Before, After or at the Same time as AutoStop.

To test this I turned on the Backup Camera (manual button) at night so I could see the brake lights come on easily. If I very slowly press the brake pedal, the Brake Light will come on and the Vehicle will stop (on Level surface). I can keep my foot here indefinitely and the engine will not stop. As soon as I push my foot a little further the Engine shuts down. This makes sense as they are probably independent circuits. It could be the same switch that cancels cruise control as well.


Another thing is, you do get braking before you hit that Auto Stop switch. Not a lot, but enough if you are on an incline or level surface. If you are on a decline there is not enough braking to hold the vehicle and keep engine running.

But knowing this I can decide on a case by case basis if I want it to stop the engine or not. You can brake as hard as you want. You just decide how far to let up if you want engine to stay running or not.

Again both the braking action and the trip point of each switch may vary vehicle to vehicle. I did have a quick look and it is one physical multipole switch. I was hoping it was separate so you could widen the gap a little more between braking and stopping motor (it's fairly narrow).

I've also noticed that sometimes there is like a 2 second delay with full braking before the engine stops. And other times it's immediate. I have not figured out what situation causes that difference in behavior.

It really does save gas. I was up in the high 20's AVG MPG after a long trip and pulled up to a light. I could see the MPG dropping continuously as I sat there waiting. And of course as soon as I pushed my foot the whole way the dropping immediately stopped. It's pretty cool to see that it isn't a complete waste.

__________________
07-24-2017 Summit 3.6L Velvet Red W/Black & Brown Int
Tires: OEM 20"/Nokian 18"
Situational awareness: Valentine One with V1Driver on IOS
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mswlogo For This Useful Post:
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 10-04-2016, 05:22 PM
whitexkr's Avatar
Premium Vendor
My Jeep: 2016 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 68
Thanks: 17
Thanked 27 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 182
whitexkr is on a distinguished road
Re: Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

Instead of a brake switch, or a multi-pole switch, the sensing appears to be done by a brake pedal travel sensor, which provides a continuous input to the computers in the vehicle, much like a throttle position sensor.

Also, a clarification. My product is not an ESS override. It simply changes the ESS start-up default to the driver's preference.

I agree with you that ESS has value, particularly in stop-and-go traffic and it really does save gas. As you implied, the reasons people dislike it have been well enough documented in other threads.

And yes, you can also control ESS pretty well with some practice with your braking technique.
__________________
http://www.smartstopstart.com: 3.6L Engine Stop Start (ESS) the way it should have been designed.
ON SALE through Friday, Nov 18th: $30 OFF and FREE shipping
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-04-2016, 06:49 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,715
Thanks: 38
Thanked 181 Times in 141 Posts
Rep Power: 76184
mswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitexkr View Post
Instead of a brake switch, or a multi-pole switch, the sensing appears to be done by a brake pedal travel sensor, which provides a continuous input to the computers in the vehicle, much like a throttle position sensor.

Also, a clarification. My product is not an ESS override. It simply changes the ESS start-up default to the driver's preference.

I agree with you that ESS has value, particularly in stop-and-go traffic and it really does save gas. As you implied, the reasons people dislike it have been well enough documented in other threads.

And yes, you can also control ESS pretty well with some practice with your braking technique.
Travel Sensor makes sense. If it was that, I wonder why they would separate Brake Lights from Auto Stop position?

You can think of your device as an "Override", it overrides the default behavior of turning it back on, on each start to be what it was when it was turned off.
__________________
07-24-2017 Summit 3.6L Velvet Red W/Black & Brown Int
Tires: OEM 20"/Nokian 18"
Situational awareness: Valentine One with V1Driver on IOS
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-04-2016, 07:28 PM
whitexkr's Avatar
Premium Vendor
My Jeep: 2016 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 68
Thanks: 17
Thanked 27 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 182
whitexkr is on a distinguished road
Re: Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
Travel Sensor makes sense. If it was that, I wonder why they would separate Brake Lights from Auto Stop position?
Not sure, but all lights are software controlled now...case in point the Taser lightshow. Much more subtle behavior is now possible at minimal cost by just changing a few lines of code.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
You can think of your device as an "Override", it overrides the default behavior of turning it back on, on each start to be what it was when it was turned off.
True, not an ESS override, but a default override.
__________________
http://www.smartstopstart.com: 3.6L Engine Stop Start (ESS) the way it should have been designed.
ON SALE through Friday, Nov 18th: $30 OFF and FREE shipping
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-06-2016, 12:04 PM
fireman's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Eldersburg, MD
Posts: 271
Thanks: 15
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 350308
fireman has a reputation beyond reputefireman has a reputation beyond reputefireman has a reputation beyond reputefireman has a reputation beyond reputefireman has a reputation beyond reputefireman has a reputation beyond reputefireman has a reputation beyond reputefireman has a reputation beyond reputefireman has a reputation beyond reputefireman has a reputation beyond reputefireman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
I really don't mind the Auto Stop most of the time. But if I know I'm going to immediately start again. It's just a wasted cycle. But if I'm sitting at a very long light it does save gas.
I generally like it. What ruffles my feathers is when I pull into a parking spot and it shuts down as soon as I stop. I put it in park and it starts back up to shut off. Either that or I subconsciously take my foot off the brake after hearing it shut off which causes it to start back up. Need to pay more attention to it to figure out what's going on. May resort to hitting the disable button when parking so I can avoid starting it to stop it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to fireman For This Useful Post:
  #6  
Old 10-06-2016, 12:54 PM
Laxjeep's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2017 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: CLT, NC
Posts: 454
Thanks: 247
Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts
Rep Power: 1716
Laxjeep is on a distinguished road
Re: Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman View Post
I generally like it. What ruffles my feathers is when I pull into a parking spot and it shuts down as soon as I stop. I put it in park and it starts back up to shut off. Either that or I subconsciously take my foot off the brake after hearing it shut off which causes it to start back up. Need to pay more attention to it to figure out what's going on. May resort to hitting the disable button when parking so I can avoid starting it to stop it.

I didn't even think of this scenario...(I have one on order)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-06-2016, 01:19 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,715
Thanks: 38
Thanked 181 Times in 141 Posts
Rep Power: 76184
mswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman View Post
I generally like it. What ruffles my feathers is when I pull into a parking spot and it shuts down as soon as I stop. I put it in park and it starts back up to shut off. Either that or I subconsciously take my foot off the brake after hearing it shut off which causes it to start back up. Need to pay more attention to it to figure out what's going on. May resort to hitting the disable button when parking so I can avoid starting it to stop it.
Yes, that ruffles my feathers too.

As you pull in, just let up on the brake, just enough to hold it, it will stay running while you get it into park and still not move. That gap is fairly narrow though.

I've hit the switch when parking too.

It is smart enough in stop and go traffic, that if it shuts off once, it won't shut off again for a while on the next stop. And if you are parking going back and forth it won't keep turning off on you, just once.
__________________
07-24-2017 Summit 3.6L Velvet Red W/Black & Brown Int
Tires: OEM 20"/Nokian 18"
Situational awareness: Valentine One with V1Driver on IOS
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mswlogo For This Useful Post:
  #8  
Old 10-20-2016, 09:57 PM
millarduck's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2016 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Delaware
Posts: 82
Thanks: 6
Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 1774
millarduck is on a distinguished road
Re: Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

I don't like it shutting off at a stop sign. After coming to a complete stop, there should be a stop sign delay of a few seconds, like 5. I also agree about the parking issue when it shuts off while you put it in park, only to start back in park. Again the delay would fix this issue. Maybe as simple as a re-program. Makes you wonder why this was not worked out before they released it.


Sent from my iPad using JeepGarage
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-20-2016, 10:13 PM
bill_de's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2017 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,236
Thanks: 672
Thanked 926 Times in 737 Posts
Rep Power: 1804900
bill_de has a reputation beyond reputebill_de has a reputation beyond reputebill_de has a reputation beyond reputebill_de has a reputation beyond reputebill_de has a reputation beyond reputebill_de has a reputation beyond reputebill_de has a reputation beyond reputebill_de has a reputation beyond reputebill_de has a reputation beyond reputebill_de has a reputation beyond reputebill_de has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by millarduck View Post
I don't like it shutting off at a stop sign. After coming to a complete stop, there should be a stop sign delay of a few seconds, like 5. I also agree about the parking issue when it shuts off while you put it in park, only to start back in park. Again the delay would fix this issue. Maybe as simple as a re-program. Makes you wonder why this was not worked out before they released it.


Sent from my iPad using JeepGarage
Many companies use "potential" customers to test new systems. FCA lets you buy it first and then act as a test dummy. After enough complaints they might fix something. I'm pretty sure all their engineers are Amish, so never actually drive a Jeep.


---
__________________
If you need a shoulder to cry on ...
... pull over to the side of the road!

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-20-2016, 10:33 PM
AJB-830's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2017 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Mishicot, WI.
Posts: 177
Thanks: 32
Thanked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 15880
AJB-830 has a reputation beyond reputeAJB-830 has a reputation beyond reputeAJB-830 has a reputation beyond reputeAJB-830 has a reputation beyond reputeAJB-830 has a reputation beyond reputeAJB-830 has a reputation beyond reputeAJB-830 has a reputation beyond reputeAJB-830 has a reputation beyond reputeAJB-830 has a reputation beyond reputeAJB-830 has a reputation beyond reputeAJB-830 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
Many companies use "potential" customers to test new systems. FCA lets you buy it first and then act as a test dummy. After enough complaints they might fix something. I'm pretty sure all their engineers are Amish, so never actually drive a Jeep.


---
When I get my 2017 Summit, I am hoping I can get into the habit of pushing the button at startup before shifting into gear. Might be harder to train my wife to do the same. Kind of like waiting the for "start light" to go out on my F250 Ford diesel pick-up before operating the starter. Al
__________________
2017 Velvet Red Summit with Siena Brown
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AJB-830 For This Useful Post:
  #11  
Old 10-26-2016, 08:20 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2017 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 39
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 1725
ChuckinMA is on a distinguished road
Re: Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

Week 2 of my new 2017 Overland and I'm loving it but one thing is bugging me. I have a tight garage and pull in slowly, inching forward and stopping before I hit anything. The auto start stop shuts the engine down, only to start it back up for a second as I shift from Drive to Park at which point I shut everything down.

There must be a trick to avoid that. Anyone have any recommendations other than manually turning off Auto start stop each time I pull into the garage?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ChuckinMA For This Useful Post:
  #12  
Old 10-26-2016, 09:01 AM
whitexkr's Avatar
Premium Vendor
My Jeep: 2016 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 68
Thanks: 17
Thanked 27 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 182
whitexkr is on a distinguished road
Re: Auto Start/Stop and Brake Pedal

It takes a bit of practice, but a very light touch on the brake pedal can keep the ESS from triggering.
__________________
http://www.smartstopstart.com: 3.6L Engine Stop Start (ESS) the way it should have been designed.
ON SALE through Friday, Nov 18th: $30 OFF and FREE shipping
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Week old Summit Auto stop and start fail whitm Trouble Shooting/Problems/Service 4 04-10-2016 10:19 AM
brake pedal higher than gas pedal Ali112 Troubleshooting/Problems 0 11-19-2015 05:55 PM
Auto Stop/Start Warning Light Cheroke_Daz Troubleshooting/Problems Discussion 0 10-02-2014 02:25 AM
NEW Pedal set including deal pedal F/S YO-EL Interior/Exterior/Visual 1 02-04-2014 05:29 PM
Pedal Kit - Dealership Monkee installed gas pedal upside down ARK27 Interior/Exterior/Visual 5 06-17-2012 06:39 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community

JeepGarage.org is in no way associated with or endorsed by FCA US LLC. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Mopar and SRT are registered trademarks of FCA US LLC.