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  #49  
Old 08-26-2014, 09:32 PM
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Re: Carwash Conundrum

The NHTSA has never given me any reason to suspect they have such a bias.

Remember too...people were claiming their cars were accelerating on their own and out of control before cars had throttle by wire systems and when there was a physical throttle cable. Remember the Audi 5000?

People are jamming the gas thinking its the brake. I was in a car yesterday with a guy that did it while backing up, scary as hell but it was his fault not the car's.

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  #50  
Old 08-26-2014, 10:31 PM
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Re: Carwash Conundrum

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
The NHTSA has never given me any reason to suspect they have such a bias.

Remember too...people were claiming their cars were accelerating on their own and out of control before cars had throttle by wire systems and when there was a physical throttle cable. Remember the Audi 5000?

People are jamming the gas thinking its the brake. I was in a car yesterday with a guy that did it while backing up, scary as hell but it was his fault not the car's.
HAHA I had a 1986 Audi 5000. What a nightmare. The problems with the JGC are nothing compared to the 5000.
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  #51  
Old 08-27-2014, 10:32 AM
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Re: Carwash Conundrum

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HAHA I had a 1986 Audi 5000. What a nightmare. The problems with the JGC are nothing compared to the 5000.
BUT...it didn't accelerate out of control and try and kill you! Thats my point.

BTW you have excellent taste in Jeeps
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  #52  
Old 08-27-2014, 10:52 AM
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[QUOTE="SW03ES;1075498"]

BUT...it didn't accelerate out of control and try and kill you! Thats my point.

BTW you have excellent taste in Jeeps

Thank you
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  #53  
Old 08-27-2014, 01:39 PM
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Re: Carwash Conundrum

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
Just remember about "unintended acceleration". Many claims have been made across many vehicles from many manufacturers about "unintended acceleration"...most recently Toyota/Lexus and the whole Camry/ES350 fiasco. The NHTSA has done many investigations into all of these claims against all of these vehicles...and has NEVER returned a verdict that any case of "unintended acceleration" is real or is caused by a fault in the car.
The Toyota fiasco was getting so much press that they turned the technical part of the investigation over to NASA engineers. They found no problem with the cars. IIRC


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  #54  
Old 08-27-2014, 02:41 PM
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Re: Carwash Conundrum

Toyota is preparing to pay out millions in fines and compensation to victims families...there was an issue.
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  #55  
Old 08-27-2014, 03:41 PM
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Re: Carwash Conundrum

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
The Toyota fiasco was getting so much press that they turned the technical part of the investigation over to NASA engineers. They found no problem with the cars. IIRC


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IIRC it turned out much like the Audi one.
Often, the claimant was not that familiar with the vehicle, or was "somewhat challenged in basic cognitive and driving skills".
Where studies from the Audi one and later incidents discovered that folks who shove their foot on the gas--upon seeing the vehicle move, will shove even harder since they honestly think they have their foot on the brake.
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  #56  
Old 08-27-2014, 03:53 PM
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Re: Carwash Conundrum

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Originally Posted by CHALLENGERBIZJET View Post
Toyota is preparing to pay out millions in fines and compensation to victims families...there was an issue.
There was no issue with the vehicles. The issues insofar as the fines were concerned had to do with Toyota's handling of the situation, notification of owners, etc. The reason for the fines are a matter of public record, you can look it up.

The settlements with families, owners, etc are just that...settlements to make the situation go away. Companies, and individuals for that matter, pay to settle out of court all the time even if there is no fault. Its a business decision, continue to fight which costs money and keeps the situation going and hurts your company, or just pay people off to make it go away. Toyota has chosen the latter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lstowell
Where studies from the Audi one and later incidents discovered that folks who shove their foot on the gas--upon seeing the vehicle move, will shove even harder since they honestly think they have their foot on the brake.
Yep, this is exactly what happened to me the other day. I was riding in a car with a coworker of mine and he was backing up while turning around to look out the back. He hit the gas instead of the brake and then pushed down harder thinking he truly had the brake. Luckily he swapped over in time.
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  #57  
Old 08-27-2014, 08:51 PM
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Re: Carwash Conundrum

Yes that's the usual route with lawsuits no fault admitted but we are going to pay you millions anyway. That doesn't mean there wasn't a problem,that just means we are going to pay to make it all go away so that the brands name can be rebuilt and made better so that purchases will continue at a higher rate.
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  #58  
Old 08-27-2014, 09:18 PM
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Re: Carwash Conundrum

Toyota did have a problem with the gas pedal sticking. They had a recall that involved installing a spacer. It didn't cause acceleration, but the cars didn't slow down when you took your foot off the gas. Toyota admitted this, but the press and some members of Congress were insisting it was a computer problem. That's what NASA disproved.


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  #59  
Old 08-28-2014, 10:30 AM
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Carwash Conundrum

Unfortunately, NASA's report isn't the whole story. As with most things, the public at large took that report and read it as "no problems with the Toyota systems" when in fact that isn't what it said. It specifically targeted electronics and issues that might be caused by EMI. In that respect, the Toyota electronics were fine. NASA only did relatively minor verification of the firmware running the systems. And the public slowly lost track and interest...

However, MULTIPLE issues were found with the firmware (code) which run said electronics when they were analyzed more in-depth to include the base operating system and other software components. Engineers brought in to analyze it found multiple errors and in general found the code to be horribly designed, put together like "spaghetti", and as well found instances in which the firmware could cause unintended acceleration (a "flipped bit" error was widely reported on in electronics and embedded software journals). For the most part, the mainstream media did not report on these findings much and unless you were an engineer that read electronic design stuff, you might not have seen it.
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  #60  
Old 08-28-2014, 10:55 AM
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Re: Carwash Conundrum

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Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
Unfortunately, NASA's report isn't the whole story. As with most things, the public at large took that report and read it as "no problems with the Toyota systems" when in fact that isn't what it said. It specifically targeted electronics and issues that might be caused by EMI. In that respect, the Toyota electronics were fine. NASA only did relatively minor verification of the firmware running the systems. And the public slowly lost track and interest...

However, MULTIPLE issues were found with the firmware (code) which run said electronics when they were analyzed more in-depth to include the base operating system and other software components. Engineers brought in to analyze it found multiple errors and in general found the code to be horribly designed, put together like "spaghetti", and as well found instances in which the firmware could cause unintended acceleration (a "flipped bit" error was widely reported on in electronics and embedded software journals). For the most part, the mainstream media did not report on these findings much and unless you were an engineer that read electronic design stuff, you might not have seen it.
I guess the press figured the public would only be interested in something that 'did' cause a problem, rather than something that 'could'. I'm thinking if these findings were a serious threat there would have been a recall that would have been very heavily publicized. Hopefully they at least set up what Jeep would call an RRT.


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