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  #505  
Old 02-10-2014, 12:57 PM
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Re: Changes for 2015?

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Originally Posted by Marlon_JB2 View Post
Fiat influence? Yeah uh, you do realize that there was no merger, right? Chrysler and Fiat are still kinda free to do whatever they want.

See Renault and Nissan.
What does "kinda free" mean? Is that like going to the white house carrying a gun?

I'll admit I haven't spent a lot of time (from my consumer position at the end of the food chain) watching the ownership musical chairs of Chrysler and GM. My current perceptions come from limited and periodic allusions to Fiat ownership here in the forums.

Is my perception not accurate?
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  #506  
Old 02-10-2014, 01:17 PM
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Re: Changes for 2015?

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
I think that's been the plan from the beginning. They are just doing it one step at a time, which is a good thing. They will still have to pay licensing fees.
Give me a ZF over a Chrysler made transmission any day. Chrysler cant make cylinder heads for the Pentastar w/o issues so making trannies would be even a bigger challenge for the union workers at Chrysler. Chrysler has a hard time writing software w/o bugs in it why would you want them making transmissions.

Yeah Chrysler is free to do what it wants as long as the profits are being sent back to Sergio, his friends and cronies in the Italian govt. Sorry Chrysler isnt free to do what it wants. It will be interesting to see the make of the BOD for FCA.
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  #507  
Old 02-10-2014, 01:21 PM
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I'm not real keen on the calls certain people have for the widespread use of aluminum structurally. Especially in an off-road capable vehicle and for anyone that might use it as such. Land Rover might get away with it because it's clientele will generally not be doing as much with the vehicles--they simply cost too much. It might be interesting to see how many of the newer RRs are on the market for off-road use 7-10 years from now and how they are holding up structurally.

Things to keep in mind about aluminum:

1) Cost. Much more expensive
2) Fatigue limit and life is lower
3) Galvanic corrosion issues with the use of any dissimilar metals. Much more pronounced with widespread use.

Ford is already testing the limits with their new F-150 design and there are quite a few in the industry who are expecting some real issues on a vehicle that is extensively "used" so to speak.

People need to remember that there isn't any "miracle" substance. Going to aluminum will have tradeoffs. For example, while an all-aluminum engine can be made to last 150k-200k miles, that is generally pushing an upper limit. And you better not overheat it. Iron blocks last longer. Are easier to rebuild. And many last longer than the average. Now, none of that matters to the manufacturer--they are done with you cost-wise when you get out of warranty. But it might matter to you as the end user if you plan to keep a vehicle. Tradeoffs...always tradeoffs.
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  #508  
Old 02-10-2014, 01:37 PM
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Re: Changes for 2015?

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Originally Posted by GunnySpook View Post
What does "kinda free" mean? Is that like going to the white house carrying a gun?

I'll admit I haven't spent a lot of time (from my consumer position at the end of the food chain) watching the ownership musical chairs of Chrysler and GM. My current perceptions come from limited and periodic allusions to Fiat ownership here in the forums.

Is my perception not accurate?
In a sense, yes. One house can do whatever they want but the other house needs to be kept in the loop. When overlap or synergies occur, both houses participate. Dictation doesn't occur often ("You MUST use this" or "You CAN'T do that"). Its usually of the line "This is good but if you do this, it will be better and we can both use it.").

Consider the Dart. It is/was Revision 1 of a joint project. It's decent but it was done to fill a large hole and to meet certain needs. The Cherokee is Rev 2. Much better and much more thought out. The new 200 is Rev 3. On paper, it's the best on yet.
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  #509  
Old 02-10-2014, 01:40 PM
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Re: Changes for 2015?

You have stated exactly why I used the term 'influence' instead of dictate.

If the house 'suggests', it becomes a career decision for a division CEO to go his own way.....
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  #510  
Old 02-10-2014, 01:57 PM
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Re: Changes for 2015?

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Originally Posted by Setoutguy View Post
Give me a ZF over a Chrysler made transmission any day. Chrysler cant make cylinder heads for the Pentastar w/o issues so making trannies would be even a bigger challenge for the union workers at Chrysler. Chrysler has a hard time writing software w/o bugs in it why would you want them making transmissions.

Yeah Chrysler is free to do what it wants as long as the profits are being sent back to Sergio, his friends and cronies in the Italian govt. Sorry Chrysler isnt free to do what it wants. It will be interesting to see the make of the BOD for FCA.
And you own one these union made vehicles? What's that all about?
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  #511  
Old 02-10-2014, 02:29 PM
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Re: Changes for 2015?

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Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
I'm not real keen on the calls certain people have for the widespread use of aluminum structurally. Especially in an off-road capable vehicle and for anyone that might use it as such. Land Rover might get away with it because it's clientele will generally not be doing as much with the vehicles--they simply cost too much. It might be interesting to see how many of the newer RRs are on the market for off-road use 7-10 years from now and how they are holding up structurally.

Things to keep in mind about aluminum:

1) Cost. Much more expensive
2) Fatigue limit and life is lower
3) Galvanic corrosion issues with the use of any dissimilar metals. Much more pronounced with widespread use.

Ford is already testing the limits with their new F-150 design and there are quite a few in the industry who are expecting some real issues on a vehicle that is extensively "used" so to speak.

People need to remember that there isn't any "miracle" substance. Going to aluminum will have tradeoffs. For example, while an all-aluminum engine can be made to last 150k-200k miles, that is generally pushing an upper limit. And you better not overheat it. Iron blocks last longer. Are easier to rebuild. And many last longer than the average. Now, none of that matters to the manufacturer--they are done with you cost-wise when you get out of warranty. But it might matter to you as the end user if you plan to keep a vehicle. Tradeoffs...always tradeoffs.
What are commercial planes made out of? I thought they use a lot of aluminum, and they take a lot more abuse than most off road vehicles.


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  #512  
Old 02-10-2014, 02:32 PM
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Re: Changes for 2015?

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Originally Posted by jp467 View Post
And you own one these union made vehicles? What's that all about?
And since it was union made the rear driveshaft needed to be replaced when the vehicle was only 8mo and had less than 12000miles on it.
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  #513  
Old 02-10-2014, 02:38 PM
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Re: Changes for 2015?

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Originally Posted by Setoutguy View Post
Give me a ZF over a Chrysler made transmission any day. Chrysler cant make cylinder heads for the Pentastar w/o issues so making trannies would be even a bigger challenge for the union workers at Chrysler. Chrysler has a hard time writing software w/o bugs in it why would you want them making transmissions.

Yeah Chrysler is free to do what it wants as long as the profits are being sent back to Sergio, his friends and cronies in the Italian govt. Sorry Chrysler isnt free to do what it wants. It will be interesting to see the make of the BOD for FCA.
Really?

You better be 100% happy that I have learned a level of restraint, otherwise I'd be banned from here again.

That is all.

Looks like I'm done with this thread too!
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  #514  
Old 02-10-2014, 02:47 PM
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Re: Changes for 2015?

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Originally Posted by Setoutguy View Post
And since it was union made the rear driveshaft needed to be replaced when the vehicle was only 8mo and had less than 12000miles on it.
Odds are the driveshaft was made by a vendor who makes the shafts for a multitude of manufacturers. It may or may not be a union shop.

I'm not a fan of unions. But that doesn't mean I'm not a fan of union members.

Union or not, most people go to work and try to do a good job.

Union or not, some people just want to get through the day.

But, union or not, at least they are going to work!


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  #515  
Old 02-10-2014, 02:48 PM
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Re: Changes for 2015?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
Odds are the driveshaft was made by a vendor who makes the shafts for a multitude of manufacturers. It may or may not be a union shop.

I'm not a fan of unions. But that doesn't mean I'm not a fan of union members.

Union or not, most people go to work and try to do a good job.

Union or not, some people just want to get through the day.

But, union or not, at least they are going to work!


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You are my hero.

I feel the exact same way.

OK I'm *really* done with this thread now.
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  #516  
Old 02-10-2014, 02:52 PM
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Re: Changes for 2015?

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Originally Posted by Setoutguy View Post
And since it was union made the rear driveshaft needed to be replaced when the vehicle was only 8mo and had less than 12000miles on it.
Really?? So the reason given for the driveshaft replacement was because its union made? Now was the driveshaft union made? Do you know? I am pretty sure the driveshaft is not made at the assembly plant. Are you saying it was the way the driveshaft was installed? Maybe the driveshaft came from a supplier that is non union? I don't know but its possible and I am pretty sure you don't know either. I think you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.
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