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  #337  
Old 11-18-2015, 11:23 AM
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Re: Consumer Reports Drops Grand Cherokee Recommendation

Here is my beef with CR or any of the reporting companies. They always get the reports for all the problems, because there were problems. I drove '91 nissan pickup for 17 years ran like a champ and I beat the hell out of that truck, but everyone I ran into that drove them always complained about reliability that I believe was a lack of regular maintenance (I have been in the auto parts industry for 26 years). I drove a 2005 saturn Vue V6 AWD for 8 years / 120K miles no problems, but heard the same complaining from other people who owned this make / model.

To me it is simple, when someone has problems they shout to anyone they can but if they did not have a problem the likelyhood that they would have reported to CR or edmunds is next to zero. I am guilty of this myself. reliability is very subjective. I can not stand VW because of the sheer amount of parts I sell for these POS cars but talk to a VW owner and they absolutely love their car even if they had to replace a turbo or 8 control arms on the front of their car.

I bought My JGC because I was thoroughly impressed with the vehicle. After driving 10 different SUV's and reading about said vehicles, my JGC was the one I liked the best, and yes I bought the lifetime warranty because I keep vehicles a long time.

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  #338  
Old 11-18-2015, 01:10 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports Drops Grand Cherokee Recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by rldc2000 View Post
Here is my beef with CR or any of the reporting companies. They always get the reports for all the problems, because there were problems. I drove '91 nissan pickup for 17 years ran like a champ and I beat the hell out of that truck, but everyone I ran into that drove them always complained about reliability that I believe was a lack of regular maintenance (I have been in the auto parts industry for 26 years). I drove a 2005 saturn Vue V6 AWD for 8 years / 120K miles no problems, but heard the same complaining from other people who owned this make / model.

To me it is simple, when someone has problems they shout to anyone they can but if they did not have a problem the likelyhood that they would have reported to CR or edmunds is next to zero. I am guilty of this myself. reliability is very subjective. I can not stand VW because of the sheer amount of parts I sell for these POS cars but talk to a VW owner and they absolutely love their car even if they had to replace a turbo or 8 control arms on the front of their car.

I bought My JGC because I was thoroughly impressed with the vehicle. After driving 10 different SUV's and reading about said vehicles, my JGC was the one I liked the best, and yes I bought the lifetime warranty because I keep vehicles a long time.
VW/Audi
Land Rover
Jaguar

Three of the biggest maintenance nightmares on the road, and yet they can't keep them on the new car lot and demand premium prices for the vehicles.

Too many people buy because of 'brand name' rather than buying something that works for them at a reasonable price.

Case in point...
Back in late 2005 I was looking at a Volvo XC70.
Found out that the Ford Five Hundred AWD was basically the same car.
Checked out both of them and the Ford had about 50% more room inside, especially in the rear seat.
I bought the Ford, and paid about $10k less.

Oh, and Consumer Reports...
Not even worth buying as toilet paper in the out-house, just as worthless and irritating in that role.
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  #339  
Old 11-18-2015, 01:59 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports Drops Grand Cherokee Recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd3.6 View Post
VW/Audi
Land Rover
Jaguar

Three of the biggest maintenance nightmares on the road, and yet they can't keep them on the new car lot and demand premium prices for the vehicles.

Too many people buy because of 'brand name' rather than buying something that works for them at a reasonable price.

Case in point...
Back in late 2005 I was looking at a Volvo XC70.
Found out that the Ford Five Hundred AWD was basically the same car.
Checked out both of them and the Ford had about 50% more room inside, especially in the rear seat.
I bought the Ford, and paid about $10k less.

Oh, and Consumer Reports...
Not even worth buying as toilet paper in the out-house, just as worthless and irritating in that role.
LOL!! Whatever makes you feel better and helps you sleep at night.

As for your, 'Case in point'. How does that prove anything other than you can't afford a more expensive vehicle?
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  #340  
Old 11-18-2015, 03:16 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Consumer Reports Drops Grand Cherokee Recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
How so? Where do you find the bias in their reliability data? The magazine relies on owners of the vehicles for their data. Are you suggesting that bias exists more from owners of a particular brand than it does from owners of another brand? If so, that's ridiculous. I currently own a Toyota and an Audi. Historically, Toyota has far outranked Audi in CR reliability rankings. Are you suggesting that I'd report fewer issues for my Toyota than I would for my Audi?
ultimately it comes down to the simple fact that, people generally will leave negative reviews, but the opposite tends to not happen. basically the good experiences don't get "reported" as much because when it is not a problem we don't think about leaving feedback. I am very guilty of not leaving positive reviews or any reviews sometimes.
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  #341  
Old 11-18-2015, 03:31 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports Drops Grand Cherokee Recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by rldc2000 View Post
Here is my beef with CR or any of the reporting companies. They always get the reports for all the problems, because there were problems.
Sort of.

In the case of CR, they do a lot of surveying among a large number of their readers. They aren't simply accepting reviews or comments like a forum or review section of a site like Amazon.com might.

The questions they ask are very specific in order to correlate to the data they need to collect. This isn't a situation where someone is going to write a 1-star review because they didn't like the color of an LED.

Is CR perfect? Certainly not, but taken with other sources of information, you can get a good picture of how a product is likely to perform.

I do feel they sometime concentrate on things that really don't matter (such as the quality of speakers on a flat screen TV), or they'll gripe about things that make little sense (such as cheap appointments or lack of power in a small economy car). However, if I see a poor review of a product, I'm definitely going to do more research before I potentially plunk down cash on it. Likewise, I'm going to check to see if others agree with a glowing review.

CR is a tool in a toolbox. Like a hammer, though, it shouldn't be the only tool in your box.
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  #342  
Old 11-20-2015, 03:57 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports Drops Grand Cherokee Recommendation

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Originally Posted by MD Boy View Post
LOL!! Whatever makes you feel better and helps you sleep at night.

As for your, 'Case in point'. How does that prove anything other than you can't afford a more expensive vehicle?
It wasn't a matter of "can't afford a more expensive vehicle".

Gee, did I hit a little to close to the bone?

I could afford the Volvo, just didn't feel like spending $10k more for basically the same vehicle with much less rear seat room.
I prefer to spend my money on "content" rather than "name brand".

I've owned Audi and had friends with Audi vehicles, and family with VW.
Won't go there again.
They are fine during the warranty, but the trouble starts after the warranty ends, and the Audi dealers here in the Twin Cities are terrible.

The new LR Discovery is a great looking vehicle, the wife is starting to look for a new SUV...
Did research on Land Rover...
When the majority of sites that come up on a Google search of "land rover reliability" all disparage the brand, there's no way I'm sinking my money into one of them.

I pay for name brands when it is warranted, such as Milwaukee battery operated tools. I'm happy to pay for them because they are rock-solid tools.

About a year after buying the Five Hundred I had a co-worker that was looking to unload an XC70 because of all the problems they were having with it after the warranty expired. The didn't even want to keep it as the 'spare' vehicle for their teenage daughter because it was too unreliable.

Made me so glad I had bought the Ford!

I choose my vehicles by style/content/features, NOT by the name brand stuck to the fender.
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  #343  
Old 11-21-2015, 08:21 AM
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Re: Consumer Reports Drops Grand Cherokee Recommendation

You got one part correct, all they have is a biased survey, nothing more.

They break the cardinal rule of statistics, has to be random. If they sent out surveys to random car owners, then their data might mean something.

But their surveys are biased. Examples abound over their history of dualed nameplated cars of the same exact car built in same factory where the Foreign nameplate gets the great rating and the domestic the worst.

I think CR is for people who cant think for themselves and need a crutch to justify their car purchase.

Quality and longetivity usually comes down to maintenance or lack of.

But my parakeet does give CR high rating as cage lining LOL





Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
Sort of.

In the case of CR, they do a lot of surveying among a large number of their readers. They aren't simply accepting reviews or comments like a forum or review section of a site like Amazon.com might.

The questions they ask are very specific in order to correlate to the data they need to collect. This isn't a situation where someone is going to write a 1-star review because they didn't like the color of an LED.

Is CR perfect? Certainly not, but taken with other sources of information, you can get a good picture of how a product is likely to perform.

I do feel they sometime concentrate on things that really don't matter (such as the quality of speakers on a flat screen TV), or they'll gripe about things that make little sense (such as cheap appointments or lack of power in a small economy car). However, if I see a poor review of a product, I'm definitely going to do more research before I potentially plunk down cash on it. Likewise, I'm going to check to see if others agree with a glowing review.

CR is a tool in a toolbox. Like a hammer, though, it shouldn't be the only tool in your box.
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  #344  
Old 11-21-2015, 08:26 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports Drops Grand Cherokee Recommendation

I agree, people usually complain when something is wrong and keep quiet when everything is ok. That being said if you count people that complain, people who own Jeeps complaine more often tat people who own subarus for example.

Why? Probably becouse there is more issues with Jeep. Personally I've got more recalls on my Jeep than all other cars combined and Chrysler acknowledged that by sending gift certificates. Lousy costumer service is also HUGE part of the equation.

Had issue with my OCR module couple of days before big vacation family trip. Dealer confiscated my car (not safe to drive w/o airbags) and said that no parts available for a month. No loaner ... They said that they can rent me a car but will have to pay.

... literally walked that day home from dealership. F$&&&k it! Love my Jeep but I complained loud and clear. Another guy made video on youtube that went viral ... People are not making this stuff up.

Honestly, yeah cars have issues but Chrysler needs to gets his s$))&t together and stend behind his product went things go bad so maybe people will not complain all over the place.

Amen!


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  #345  
Old 11-21-2015, 11:27 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports Drops Grand Cherokee Recommendation

People need to stop with the whole "so many recalls equals unreliability" line. If this was true, the last two years (2013 and 2014) would have been Toyota and Honda (they would have switched places one to the next) for least reliable, as they had the highest number of recalls. Yes, more than FCA. While recalls can be a pain, every car manufacturer has them, they don't equate to unreliability.

As far as customer service, yes, there are many bad apples for dealerships. But that goes for ALL brands. I have a cousin and uncle that love GM products, a brother-in-law that loves Fords, and another uncle that loves his Hondas. I have more family than that, but that gives you a good idea that we're all over the board with our "brand loyalty" and/or vehicle decisions. I'm the Chrysler guy in my family. We all have stories about bad dealership experiences.

Can FCA work on better customer service? Absolutely. Can they improve on what I think is an average or slightly above average reliability? Absolutely. Is Consumer Reports biased? Absolutely.

I use Consumer Reports for feature comparison, ratings on initial quality and feel, and other items like that. Saves me time. I ignore any "predicted reliablity" or similar garbage they try and push, and do my own research for that.

Example: If you look at their ratings for half ton trucks, the Ram 1500 scores the highest points for features, initial quality, etc. with the Ford F-150 and GM/Chevy 1500s only being slightly below that. Toyota Tundra is at the bottom, about twenty points below the Ram, below even the Colorado/Canyon. However, in the previous issue that didn't list their point system (just the "best ones to buy"), somehow the Tundra is the half-ton that is the "best" one to buy out of them all. Yeah, I don't buy it, pardon the pun.
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  #346  
Old 11-22-2015, 01:00 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports Drops Grand Cherokee Recommendation

They are recalls, but I personally had my share of issues. Nothing huge but ... For example:
- radio was a huge screw up from the beginning ... Numerous software updates and one hardware swap finally fixed it
- transmission was a total mess ... Couple of software patches later, it is not great but OK.
- automatic climate control ... Still I think needs a fix.
- glitches with air suspension ... Software fix again took care of it
- my ocr module blow up 400 miles from home. Not fun when dashboard is lit like a christmas tree and chimes every few minutes and you have 1 year old in the back seat

To me 2014 was a beta release, and they are paying for it in reputation points for selling half baked product. 2015 probably whole different ballgame. All that being said I would still buy the Jeep just not 2014 model year. It is an awesome truck and just nothing compares but go get 2015 model year. Not sure about 2016 with the engine upgrades and worse powertrain warranty ...



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