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  #49  
Old 03-18-2014, 08:43 AM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by loveracing1988 View Post
If only GM would update the rest of the vehicle instead of playing catch up. The engine was updated sure, but how about the transmission? how about the electronics? They have priced themselves out of most peoples price range with their new Tahoe, Suburban, etc. They provide no advantage over their competition. Chrysler has Uconnect (no matter how much you may hate it) they have the 8 speed transmission, they are class leading in a lot of categories, gm is just playing follow the leader.
Wow, that's incredibly inaccurate The point of making a vehicle is to make money, GM does that, in spades, with their full size SUV's. It's their biggest (along with the fullsize truck) money makers. You may not like them, may find them butt ugly or whatever, but they make these SUV's because people buy them; people buy them because they like them, regardless of whether you feel they are playing catch up or not.

I love my "new" GC, very happy with 95% of it; but even with all that fancy electronics or whatever other "advantage" you want to give it, you wouldn't find the crappy, mail-it-in transmission tuning in my jeep, in any of those GM suv's. I know, I've driven them. Two of my brothers have pickups, one is 2002? ram, the other a 2006 gmc, the 4.8 gmc is smooth and seamless, it always knows what gear you should be in, there are no nulls or dead spots. The ram hits 65 or 70 km/h, shifts up, and drops dead; all the power is gone, a victim of tuning-for-mpg. It still gets worse mpg than my brothers 4.8.

This is the second dodge I've driven (my brothers ram + my jeep) where the transmission feels like it is designed by monkeys; the sad part is that with all that aggressive tuning, it still gets worse mpg than if they would just tune it properly because I have to mash the go pedal to get it to do anything quicker than "walk beside the turtle mode".

(rant off; sorry. I'm incredibly disappointed in the tranny in my jeep, but I love the rest of it so much that I can't bear to part with it.)
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  #50  
Old 03-18-2014, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canistel View Post
Wow, that's incredibly inaccurate The point of making a vehicle is to make money, GM does that, in spades, with their full size SUV's. It's their biggest (along with the fullsize truck) money makers. You may not like them, may find them butt ugly or whatever, but they make these SUV's because people buy them; people buy them because they like them, regardless of whether you feel they are playing catch up or not.

I love my "new" GC, very happy with 95% of it; but even with all that fancy electronics or whatever other "advantage" you want to give it, you wouldn't find the crappy, mail-it-in transmission tuning in my jeep, in any of those GM suv's. I know, I've driven them. Two of my brothers have pickups, one is 2002? ram, the other a 2006 gmc, the 4.8 gmc is smooth and seamless, it always knows what gear you should be in, there are no nulls or dead spots. The ram hits 65 or 70 km/h, shifts up, and drops dead; all the power is gone, a victim of tuning-for-mpg. It still gets worse mpg than my brothers 4.8.

This is the second dodge I've driven (my brothers ram + my jeep) where the transmission feels like it is designed by monkeys; the sad part is that with all that aggressive tuning, it still gets worse mpg than if they would just tune it properly because I have to mash the go pedal to get it to do anything quicker than "walk beside the turtle mode".

(rant off; sorry. I'm incredibly disappointed in the tranny in my jeep, but I love the rest of it so much that I can't bear to part with it.)
I actually wouldn't mind them if they were priced where they should be, the same thing with their trucks. There is a reason they are their biggest money makes and not because they sell out every month. Over twice as many grand cherokee's were bought in 2013 than tahoe's.
You cannot honestly compare a 2002 ram which was outdated at the time to a 2006 gmc. Drive a 2003 and try and tell me how it doesn't have power. Even with the 5.9 they weren't exactly class leading in any statistic, especially in mpg's.
It sucks that you feel that way about the trans in your g.c., My wife and I both love the 8 speed, both in her jeep and in my ram. For towing there is no comparison between the old 5 or 6 speed and the new 8 speed.
If you want to see GM's awesome trans programming watch The Fast Lane Truck test the GM truck (I cant remember which) with the new 6.2. With all of its power the transmission chokes it to the point where it was embarrased by both the ecobooast and the hemi.
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  #51  
Old 03-18-2014, 09:20 AM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by canistel View Post
This is the second dodge I've driven (my brothers ram + my jeep) where the transmission feels like it is designed by monkeys; the sad part is that with all that aggressive tuning, it still gets worse mpg than if they would just tune it properly because I have to mash the go pedal to get it to do anything quicker than "walk beside the turtle mode".

(rant off; sorry. I'm incredibly disappointed in the tranny in my jeep, but I love the rest of it so much that I can't bear to part with it.)
Jeep agrees with you about the transmission in your Jeep (and mine), that's why they replaced it with the 8 speed in the 2014. The vehicle feels like an entirely different vehicle with that 8 speed.

So, no sense in complaining because it's already been addressed.
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  #52  
Old 03-18-2014, 09:37 AM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by loveracing1988 View Post
I actually wouldn't mind them if they were priced where they should be, the same thing with their trucks. There is a reason they are their biggest money makes and not because they sell out every month. Over twice as many grand cherokee's were bought in 2013 than tahoe's.
You cannot honestly compare a 2002 ram which was outdated at the time to a 2006 gmc. Drive a 2003 and try and tell me how it doesn't have power. Even with the 5.9 they weren't exactly class leading in any statistic, especially in mpg's.
It sucks that you feel that way about the trans in your g.c., My wife and I both love the 8 speed, both in her jeep and in my ram. For towing there is no comparison between the old 5 or 6 speed and the new 8 speed.
If you want to see GM's awesome trans programming watch The Fast Lane Truck test the GM truck (I cant remember which) with the new 6.2. With all of its power the transmission chokes it to the point where it was embarrased by both the ecobooast and the hemi.
I don't have the 8 speed, I have a 2012 v6 so I get the 5 speed. There is no eco / sport mode or anything like that, so I'm basically stuck with this thing until Diablo or some other tuner comes out with a tune for the tranny (I remain hopeful!).

I haven't seen the review you mentioned, doesn't matter though; my point was that it's not the amount of gears or other "specs" that matter, it's the entire package that works together (or doesn't) that is important. I'd prefer less gears (5 speed vs 8) if the system works better together with 5 gears than a horribly tuned 8 speed. The tuning in these jeeps seems to be a common complaint, even the newer 8 speeds; great trannys but horrible tuning (people claiming almost getting into accidents due to them not shifting properly). At that point I couldn't care whether the thing comes with 8 gears or 20, it's not the specs that matter. I've never driven a GM this bad (compared to my jeep), and my family is quite heavily GM (so I've driven a fair amount of GM in my lifetime). Possibly the new 6.2 has some issues but I've never read that anywhere else, certainly not to the extent I find with these jeeps. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough.

But I didn't want to turn this into GM vs Dodge (clearly both are just as capable of making good stuff as well as junk), I just wanted to address what you said about the GM suv's having less impressive specs; to which I say it's not about the specs, it's about the experience.
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  #53  
Old 03-18-2014, 09:44 AM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

Here is the way I see it with the RRS: it is a great vehicle, but it might not be worth the amount extra you pay over a JGC. A RRS SE is most comparable to an JGC Overland/Summit, and there is a $12,000 price differential. The RRS Supercharged is most comparable to a JGC SRT, and again, there is a $12,000 price difference between the two. For people with enough money, this price difference won't really matter if they like the RRS more, especially with the extra niceties (including the ability to add options that aren't available on the JGC), performance (in an Overland/Summit vs. an SE (SCV6), the RRS is slightly faster and handles better, the SRT and Supercharged/Autobiography are pretty even), better service, and to some (definitely not me, I'd rather have something bearing the Jeep nameplate), the Range Rover name. As many people have mentioned, you also get very good off-road ability along with the exceptional on-road performance. There has been some debate over the RRS's off-road ability, but it did win the 2014 Four-Wheeler of the Year award, beating out both the 2014 JGC Limited (with ORAII) and the 2014 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.

The Jeep Grand Cherokee is by far a better value than the Range Rover Sport (and most vehicles). Sure, the Range Rover Sport does have its upsides, but they are not good enough to bridge the rather large price gap unless you don't care as much about the price. Also, you guys can bash it as much as you want, but it is a nice, fast, great vehicle. Every publication has given it a very good review (as with the JGC), and it is selling exceptionally well. I am trying to buy one (an Autobiography), and I am going to have to order it and wait 4 months for delivery.

A lot of what has been said has already been said in one of the 146583495 threads about the RRS here, so go take a look at those threads if you are interested.
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  #54  
Old 03-18-2014, 09:49 AM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
Jeep agrees with you about the transmission in your Jeep (and mine), that's why they replaced it with the 8 speed in the 2014. The vehicle feels like an entirely different vehicle with that 8 speed.

So, no sense in complaining because it's already been addressed.
I don't agree that my complaints have been addressed, or that those reasons were why they bumped it up to 8 speed. 8 speeds have other advantages which are reasons enough to upgrade; more fuel efficient, power from engine can be better utilized, can probably pull more etc etc. None of that has anything to do with a 5 speed that is always in the wrong gear.

No, if jeep wanted to address the specific complaints that I am mentioning, they would offer a simple flash for the tranny that would do two things: 1) not be so eager to jump up a gear under normal acceleration, 2) be quicker to downshift when needed. This thing has 2 modes: sleep mode or WOT, there is no in between. This can be corrected via a simple transmission flash, no need to wait for the 8 speed.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:43 AM
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I drive a 2012 Tahoe at work and greatly depend on it to perform well. I drove the 2010 before that. It's an Ok truck overall, but I would never buy one for my family. Mediocre and overpriced is how I would personally describe it, but it does usually get the job done. This is not meant to be a negative rant, but my point is to say that I would never consider the Tahoe over the JGC.
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  #56  
Old 03-18-2014, 11:38 AM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by canistel View Post
I don't have the 8 speed, I have a 2012 v6 so I get the 5 speed. There is no eco / sport mode or anything like that, so I'm basically stuck with this thing until Diablo or some other tuner comes out with a tune for the tranny (I remain hopeful!).
Actually, it does have a sport mode. You can manually shift gears with the shifter. I know exactly what you're saying; exactly why I traded my 2012 for a 2014. The 8 speed is awesome IMO.
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  #57  
Old 03-18-2014, 01:05 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by canistel View Post
I don't agree that my complaints have been addressed, or that those reasons were why they bumped it up to 8 speed. 8 speeds have other advantages which are reasons enough to upgrade; more fuel efficient, power from engine can be better utilized, can probably pull more etc etc. None of that has anything to do with a 5 speed that is always in the wrong gear.

No, if jeep wanted to address the specific complaints that I am mentioning, they would offer a simple flash for the tranny that would do two things: 1) not be so eager to jump up a gear under normal acceleration, 2) be quicker to downshift when needed. This thing has 2 modes: sleep mode or WOT, there is no in between. This can be corrected via a simple transmission flash, no need to wait for the 8 speed.
Have you driven the Jeep with the 8 Speed? I have extensively...and I've put 50,000 miles on the Jeep with the 5 speed. I understand your issues with the 5 speed, and I'm telling you the 8 speed is a tremendous improvement over the 5 speed.

While I see the shortcomings of the 5 speed, after 50,000 miles of use it doesn't bother me. Its just not a great pairing with the motor or the vehicle.

Reflashes aren't as simple a thing as you're making them out to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepGCOverland
The Jeep Grand Cherokee is by far a better value than the Range Rover Sport (and most vehicles). Sure, the Range Rover Sport does have its upsides, but they are not good enough to bridge the rather large price gap unless you don't care as much about the price. Also, you guys can bash it as much as you want, but it is a nice, fast, great vehicle. Every publication has given it a very good review (as with the JGC), and it is selling exceptionally well. I am trying to buy one (an Autobiography), and I am going to have to order it and wait 4 months for delivery.
Sure, its a better value. But, when we're talking about a $70,000+ vehicle such as the RRS, value becomes a relative thing. The Grand Cherokee is a great value for the money, and you get a vehicle that really feels about $10k more than it costs...BUT...its not a RRS. IMHO the RRS is something really special, and in and of itself I think its actually a pretty darn good value considering the prestige, capability, etc of what you're buying into. Compared to say an X5, which is similarly priced optioned up...the RRS is a much better buy IMHO.

The RRS and GC aren't really competition for each other.
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  #58  
Old 03-18-2014, 01:43 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
Have you driven the Jeep with the 8 Speed? I have extensively...and I've put 50,000 miles on the Jeep with the 5 speed. I understand your issues with the 5 speed, and I'm telling you the 8 speed is a tremendous improvement over the 5 speed.

While I see the shortcomings of the 5 speed, after 50,000 miles of use it doesn't bother me. Its just not a great pairing with the motor or the vehicle.

Reflashes aren't as simple a thing as you're making them out to be.
They are simple though, that's what makes this problem even more frustrating. I've had it done to my old car (part of performance tuning I did to it), and if little guys in their backyard with a laptop can do it then so can jeep. It's just a matter of changing the shift points.

Anyway I'm not going to argue about it, I've said my piece and at some point I will have to vote with my wallet.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:50 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by canistel View Post
They are simple though, that's what makes this problem even more frustrating. I've had it done to my old car (part of performance tuning I did to it), and if little guys in their backyard with a laptop can do it then so can jeep. It's just a matter of changing the shift points.

Anyway I'm not going to argue about it, I've said my piece and at some point I will have to vote with my wallet.


Than why didn't you go back and have it done to your current car?

It is probably easier, once you have the software, to tune it to satisfy 1 customer at a time. Trying to compromise and make 10's or 100's of thousands of people happy ain't so simple. Everybody drives a little differently and expects something a little different.



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Old 03-18-2014, 01:57 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

Exactly. And you can't compare a aftermarket performance tuning job to a factory TSB. That tuning program didn't have to worry about DOT requirements, wear tolerances, warranty, fuel economy. I've had a couple cars in my life with "awkward" transmissions, most notably my 2003 Lexus ES300. Lexus issued several reflashes for that and none of them helped.

Designing and developing a reflash for an entire model line as a carmaker is entirely different than guys in their backyard retuning the transmission for you (which voids the warranty by the way). They have to test it out, see what the impact is...all for a transmission they have already replaced in the vehicle.

Vote with your wallet, since you bought used you didn't buy anything from Jeep anyways. or if you want the Jeep buy one with the upgraded transmission lol. You can't complain that the outdated model is not state of the art Thats like me bitching about the infotainment in my 2011. No sense in bitching, Jeep already replaced it and the replacement is a huge improvement. Mine's just old now. Such is life.

Ask bill up there how critical I can be of Jeep. You're just off base here IMHO.
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