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  #61  
Old 03-18-2014, 04:28 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

I didn't bring my jeep to the tuner because A) his tuning only works on specific car models from GM (engine + tranny), B) I don't feel terribly excited about voiding a warranty on something that costs this much. My previous car was worth $7000 and long past the warranty when I did some slight tuning to it. Obviously if Jeep does the tune the warranty stays.

You're making this far more complicated than it needs to be; Jeep knows everything about this tranny, all the requirements for DOT, wear tolerances etc. That's all bogus man. They can adjust this tranny in realtime with the turn of a dial (for those who are lucky enough to get the dial), all I'm suggesting is that it's pretty poor showing for Jeep not to offer an adjustment to the default settings to something more, "normal"? Something that feels more "polished"? It's not a dodge dart, it's a $40,000 - $60,000 vehicle; it's their flagship. Heck I'd even pay to get this done on mine. Yes they've improved on newer models, that's not an excuse to leave a 2 year old jeep out in the wild with problems when it's cheaply and easily corrected through software.

If I can manually shift the jeep better everytime, that should be a clue that there is something broken in the current setup. But if I wanted to shift every gear I would have bought a 328i.

Now you're welcome to your opinion, I'm welcome to mine.
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  #62  
Old 03-18-2014, 04:39 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

If the manufacturer developing a transmission reflash was so simple, just "turning a dial", then why after three separate reflashes was the transmission on my 03 Lexus still awkward? And...thats Lexus a company with a well deserved reputation for customer service and standing behind their product?

You can't overcome all issues with a reflash...thats why. The transmission is not simply a computer that can be reprogrammed. They can overcome some issues with a reflash, but not all. The transmission on my old Lexus just wasn't a good fit for the vehicle or the 3.0L Toyota/Lexus V6...just as this 5 Speed is not a good match for the Pentastar. The 8 speed is a much better match, and it makes the vehicle much more enjoyable to drive.

Anyways, you bought the Jeep. You had plenty of opportunities to drive it and test it out before you bought it. Some characteristics of a vehicle just are its characteristics and can't be "fixed". They improved it in the refreshed model, it is what it is. Again...look up my posts. I am HARD on Jeep...but this expectation is unreasonable.
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  #63  
Old 03-18-2014, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
Have you driven the Jeep with the 8 Speed? I have extensively...and I've put 50,000 miles on the Jeep with the 5 speed. I understand your issues with the 5 speed, and I'm telling you the 8 speed is a tremendous improvement over the 5 speed. While I see the shortcomings of the 5 speed, after 50,000 miles of use it doesn't bother me. Its just not a great pairing with the motor or the vehicle. Reflashes aren't as simple a thing as you're making them out to be. Sure, its a better value. But, when we're talking about a $70,000+ vehicle such as the RRS, value becomes a relative thing. The Grand Cherokee is a great value for the money, and you get a vehicle that really feels about $10k more than it costs...BUT...its not a RRS. IMHO the RRS is something really special, and in and of itself I think its actually a pretty darn good value considering the prestige, capability, etc of what you're buying into. Compared to say an X5, which is similarly priced optioned up...the RRS is a much better buy IMHO. The RRS and GC aren't really competition for each other.
The RRS is not anywhere as good as an X5. Yes it looks more prestigious, but optioned the same an X5 will outperform it everywhere but off-road. And how many owners of either are going off-road? The RRS and all Land Rover products are ones that spend a lot of time getting serviced. Even though there is some German engineering in the RRS, it's still not a German. Just like the jeep benefits from it but is not as good. Fortunately the jeep is a value for the German engineering you get. There is too much British still left in the Land Rover line up. Have you ever heard the joke about replacement smoke for Lucas electrical components. I will be the first one to tell you that the RRS is one of the nicest looking trucks on the road, but I was smart enough to pass and buy the jeep. My neighbor got one and he also cross shopped the GC. After a year, he wishes he got the GC instead. I've had a few Audis and BMWs since the late 90's. You can't beat the engineering. I even had an '02 A6 Avant that made it to 135,000 before i sold it with little issues despite its "poor" quality ratings.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:18 PM
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Again...look up my posts. I am HARD on Jeep...but this expectation is unreasonable.
SW03ES....are you feeling okay?
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  #65  
Old 03-18-2014, 05:24 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by canistel View Post
I didn't bring my jeep to the tuner because A) his tuning only works on specific car models from GM (engine + tranny), B) I don't feel terribly excited about voiding a warranty on something that costs this much. My previous car was worth $7000 and long past the warranty when I did some slight tuning to it. Obviously if Jeep does the tune the warranty stays.


Now you're welcome to your opinion, I'm welcome to mine.


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  #66  
Old 03-18-2014, 05:45 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
If the manufacturer developing a transmission reflash was so simple, just "turning a dial", then why after three separate reflashes was the transmission on my 03 Lexus still awkward? And...thats Lexus a company with a well deserved reputation for customer service and standing behind their product?

You can't overcome all issues with a reflash...thats why. The transmission is not simply a computer that can be reprogrammed. They can overcome some issues with a reflash, but not all. The transmission on my old Lexus just wasn't a good fit for the vehicle or the 3.0L Toyota/Lexus V6...just as this 5 Speed is not a good match for the Pentastar. The 8 speed is a much better match, and it makes the vehicle much more enjoyable to drive.

Anyways, you bought the Jeep. You had plenty of opportunities to drive it and test it out before you bought it. Some characteristics of a vehicle just are its characteristics and can't be "fixed". They improved it in the refreshed model, it is what it is. Again...look up my posts. I am HARD on Jeep...but this expectation is unreasonable.
(your previous posts about being hard on jeep are totally irrelevant; what you've said in the past in no way means anything in regards to your current view point being incorrect or correct. Nobody is right 100% of the time)

I didn't say creating a flash / update was done by turning a dial, I said these jeeps come equipped with dials that allow us to tune the tranny dynamically, on the fly. In tow mode for example, the engine revs higher before shifting into the next gear. That's what I'm asking to be adjusted, the points at which the tranny upshifts and downshifts; essentially, my tranny would then be much closer to the tune found in "tow mode" instead of "eco mode".

As for Lexus I have no idea, maybe the problem was hardware related (physical defect) or maybe they didn't want to spend the money, or maybe they're just incompetent. My 04 pontiac could be tuned a million different ways by some guy with a $100 laptop and some windows xp software.

Yes I did buy the vehicle; I actually test drove a few of them with different options, engines etc. I ended up getting this v6 because the price was right and I fell in love with the rest of the jeep. I did not really notice the transmission oddity until driving back home where it's mainly country driving and the "honeymoon" wore off a while. I'm not trying to reduce my responsibility to do my due diligence or anything like that; I'm simply calling out Jeep for the very odd half-baked tuning.

Finally, we know Jeep can retune the tranny with a software update since they've done it at least once (if not more) for the 2014 8 speed as well.
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  #67  
Old 03-18-2014, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canistel View Post
(your previous posts about being hard on jeep are totally irrelevant; what you've said in the past in no way means anything in regards to your current view point being incorrect or correct. Nobody is right 100% of the time)

I didn't say creating a flash / update was done by turning a dial, I said these jeeps come equipped with dials that allow us to tune the tranny dynamically, on the fly. In tow mode for example, the engine revs higher before shifting into the next gear. That's what I'm asking to be adjusted, the points at which the tranny upshifts and downshifts; essentially, my tranny would then be much closer to the tune found in "tow mode" instead of "eco mode".

As for Lexus I have no idea, maybe the problem was hardware related (physical defect) or maybe they didn't want to spend the money, or maybe they're just incompetent. My 04 pontiac could be tuned a million different ways by some guy with a $100 laptop and some windows xp software.

Yes I did buy the vehicle; I actually test drove a few of them with different options, engines etc. I ended up getting this v6 because the price was right and I fell in love with the rest of the jeep. I did not really notice the transmission oddity until driving back home where it's mainly country driving and the "honeymoon" wore off a while. I'm not trying to reduce my responsibility to do my due diligence or anything like that; I'm simply calling out Jeep for the very odd half-baked tuning.

Finally, we know Jeep can retune the tranny with a software update since they've done it at least once (if not more) for the 2014 8 speed as well.
Here is the solution, don't buy the car in the first place. You can look at the gear ratios they used with the V6 and Nag trans and see that it just doesn't work well performance wise, hence the reason you can go 52 mph or so in 1st gear. It was tuned for fuel economy, plain and simple, the nag doesn't have the gears spaced close enough to stay in the power band of the V6 all of the time. That is the reason why it now has the 8 speed, plain and simple. That is why it knocked a second off the zero to sixty time just with the new transmission.
The first time we went on a test drive with a 2013 we actually thought something was wrong with it because the jeep felt so darn slow and seemed to struggle to even get to freeway speed, that is why we waited to get the 2014, we knew we weren't going to be happy with the 5 speed.
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  #68  
Old 03-18-2014, 07:17 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by canistel View Post
As for Lexus I have no idea, maybe the problem was hardware related (physical defect)
So you're willing to entertain the notion that the Lexus issue is hardware related, but not willing to entertain the notion that the issue with the Jeep transmission is hardware related. Makes sense :roll eyes:

Quote:
Finally, we know Jeep can retune the tranny with a software update since they've done it at least once (if not more) for the 2014 8 speed as well.
What we know is that they were able to tune the 8 speed. Don't assume. Why would they not release a reflash for the 5 speed if they could? They released a reflash for the eLSD in the 11-13 recently, so its not that they are no longer supporting the previous generation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K
SW03ES....are you feeling okay?
Down is up, and up is down! LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnC
The RRS is not anywhere as good as an X5. Yes it looks more prestigious, but optioned the same an X5 will outperform it everywhere but off-road.
1. Have you driven a new RRS? Or even the previous RRS?
2. Have you driven the NEW X5...the X5 with the electric power steering?

The previous X5 was quite agile, but the new one is a very different vehicle. Much heavier, more bloated. The previous RRS is much more engaging and fun to drive than the NEW X5, I personally think it was compared to the previous one as well. I have not driven a new RRS, because they are so hard to come by but the reviews are all excellent. I find the car MUCH more appealing than an X5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveracing1988
Here is the solution, don't buy the car in the first place. You can look at the gear ratios they used with the V6 and Nag trans and see that it just doesn't work well performance wise, hence the reason you can go 52 mph or so in 1st gear. It was tuned for fuel economy, plain and simple, the nag doesn't have the gears spaced close enough to stay in the power band of the V6 all of the time. That is the reason why it now has the 8 speed, plain and simple. That is why it knocked a second off the zero to sixty time just with the new transmission.
Precisely...and this is why even if it were possible to reprogram the 5 speed to better take advantage of the Pentastar's power band, they wouldn't do it because they would then have to revise the fuel economy figures.
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  #69  
Old 03-18-2014, 07:33 PM
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The new RRS drives amazingly in all trims. The Supercharged/Autobiography trims with the Supercharged V8 are incredible. You will have to drive one yourself to see what it is like. The SE/HSE with the Supercharged V6 still are great to drive, but obviously not as fun as the ones with the SC V8. They are also faster, albeit not by much, than my 2014 JGC Overland V8, and handle much better.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:50 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by loveracing1988 View Post
Here is the solution, don't buy the car in the first place. You can look at the gear ratios they used with the V6 and Nag trans and see that it just doesn't work well performance wise, hence the reason you can go 52 mph or so in 1st gear. It was tuned for fuel economy, plain and simple, the nag doesn't have the gears spaced close enough to stay in the power band of the V6 all of the time. That is the reason why it now has the 8 speed, plain and simple. That is why it knocked a second off the zero to sixty time just with the new transmission.
The first time we went on a test drive with a 2013 we actually thought something was wrong with it because the jeep felt so darn slow and seemed to struggle to even get to freeway speed, that is why we waited to get the 2014, we knew we weren't going to be happy with the 5 speed.
You seem to be overlooking the fact that I can manually run through the gears AND DO A BETTER JOB! Geez, you people can't read. Get it? I can DO A BETTER JOB MYSELF. It's a freaking tuning issue, not a physical hardware / gear ratio issue.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:58 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
So you're willing to entertain the notion that the Lexus issue is hardware related, but not willing to entertain the notion that the issue with the Jeep transmission is hardware related. Makes sense :roll eyes:



What we know is that they were able to tune the 8 speed. Don't assume. Why would they not release a reflash for the 5 speed if they could? They released a reflash for the eLSD in the 11-13 recently, so its not that they are no longer supporting the previous generation.



Down is up, and up is down! LOL



1. Have you driven a new RRS? Or even the previous RRS?
2. Have you driven the NEW X5...the X5 with the electric power steering?

The previous X5 was quite agile, but the new one is a very different vehicle. Much heavier, more bloated. The previous RRS is much more engaging and fun to drive than the NEW X5, I personally think it was compared to the previous one as well. I have not driven a new RRS, because they are so hard to come by but the reviews are all excellent. I find the car MUCH more appealing than an X5.



Precisely...and this is why even if it were possible to reprogram the 5 speed to better take advantage of the Pentastar's power band, they wouldn't do it because they would then have to revise the fuel economy figures.
Yes, now we're getting somewhere; Jeep doesn't do it because they need to keep the MPG up (which was precisely my point; they tune it agressively for MPG). But it's not working as intended when I have to over compensate and mash the pedal which then makes it drop down 2 gears, instead of being just a little bit more eager to drop down 1 gear and accelerate instead of lug. Hence my complaint; two modes, sleep or WOT. This MPG game is the reason why jeep doesn't fix it, not because it's a hardware issue.

Anyway I really love talking to you all but I'm done with this argument (some people are always right and I happen to value my time)
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:03 PM
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Re: Drove a 2014 Toyota Highlander today, my thoughts vs the WK2

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Anyway I really love talking to you all but I'm done with this argument (some people are always right and I happen to value my time)
Hey pot, its the kettle LOL.
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