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Old 11-06-2015, 09:35 AM
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Electronic steering?

I know this is probably a rather ignant question....but I've been wondering if some of yall with "electronic steering" can help this simple minded fella understand a little more.

Long long ago...in a galaxy (parked in my driveway)...

Power steering consisted of a very large, very VERY hard steering wheel and was variable based on how hard you could pull down on the side of the wheel to which you were turning. I swear, all it lacked was pegs sticking out from the ring and it woulda been like steering a pirate ship.

Then along comes hydraulic-assisted "power steering". The wheel shrinks a little as the force needed to induce steerage is reduced. Throw the belt, blow a hose, loose all your juice....you revert to UN-boosted steering and get a quick lesson in physics as you see how much more force is needed to turn a smaller wheel...but you still have steering.

And now there is "electronic Steering" and fancy features to "help" you stay in your lane so that you dont get distracted from you facebook conversation, highway dining, cosmetic application, and liquid libations. As a modern red-blooded american, I welcome any opportunity to do less work (Energy conservation).

But I'm wondering....Although I understand that electronics are inherently flawless and couldnt possibly have any hiccups.....

Hypothetically speaking....what happens if the electronic steering...doesnt?

Just curious....

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Old 11-06-2015, 01:29 PM
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Re: Electronic steering?

It's listed as "Electric Rack and Pinion" which to me says that the power assist is electric, rather than hydraulic, but the "rack and pinion" part says you can still steer it if aliens decent over your JGC and the electrical systems fry...

But I could be wrong about that.
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Old 11-06-2015, 02:10 PM
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Re: Electronic steering?

Actually OP, I wish to direct your attention towards something else. This question is not directly applicable to Jeeps because the "assisted" part (while electric vs. hydraulic in years past) still involve a mechanical linkage.

I do not have the time (despite the willingness) to look up links and present the fuller picture here. Possibly later tonight. But if you want to read on the safeguards, start by googling the Direct Adaptive Steering found on the 2014+ Infiniti Q50. That steering does not have a mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the steering rack. It is all electromagnets and electric motors. If the main mechanism is to fail, the failsafe mechanism consists of another clutch pack / electromagnet that binds the steering wheel to the steering rack in a mechanical connection.

https://pictures.dealer.com/infiniti...0399a66bde.pdf

While it has benefits such as adjustable steering ratios and ability to turn wheels at different angles, it also provides a disconnected feeling in terms of road feel and feedback. It is currently being redesigned and hybridized with the old G35-37 steering.
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Old 11-06-2015, 02:22 PM
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Re: Electronic steering?

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
Actually OP, I wish to direct your attention towards something else. This question is not directly applicable to Jeeps because the "assisted" part (while electric vs. hydraulic in years past) still involve a mechanical linkage.

I do not have the time (despite the willingness) to look up links and present the fuller picture here. Possibly later tonight. But if you want to read on the safeguards, start by googling the Direct Adaptive Steering found on the 2014+ Infiniti Q50. That steering does not have a mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the steering rack. It is all electromagnets and electric motors. If the main mechanism is to fail, the failsafe mechanism consists of another clutch pack / electromagnet that binds the steering wheel to the steering rack in a mechanical connection.

https://pictures.dealer.com/infiniti...0399a66bde.pdf

While it has benefits such as adjustable steering ratios and ability to turn wheels at different angles, it also provides a disconnected feeling in terms of road feel and feedback. It is currently being redesigned and hybridized with the old G35-37 steering.
Ahhhh... and that is what I was looking for. Not only the assurance that a fail-safe existed, but a rudamentary understanding of HOW it exists.

THANK YOU

Frankly sounds like the debate in the aviation industry of "fly-by-wire" vs good ole "Cable-cable and bell-crank" each has its advantages.

While I look upon it with apprehension because I dont understand it....I acknowledge that there are LOTS of smart folks who do. And that some day the "new way" will be THE way. And the current way will be the wrong way.

Until then.....Darn these new kids, nowadays. A real pilot dont need no GPS. Hand me my sextant and remind me which of those bright points out there is Polaris....
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:58 AM
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Re: Electronic steering?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vroooom View Post
Until then.....Darn these new kids, nowadays. A real pilot dont need no GPS. Hand me my sextant and remind me which of those bright points out there is Polaris....
And darn those young'ns and their light pollution, blocking my view of Polaris!
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:18 PM
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Re: Electronic steering?

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post

But if you want to read on the safeguards, start by googling the Direct Adaptive Steering found on the 2014+ Infiniti Q50.

While it has benefits such as adjustable steering ratios and ability to turn wheels at different angles, it also provides a disconnected feeling in terms of road feel and feedback. It is currently being redesigned and hybridized with the old G35-37 steering.
I really dislike electric steering. Even rack-and-pinion with electric power assist feels awful, IMO.

Yeah, the Q50's steering definitely feels disconnected from the road, especially when something like this happens. I will say, however, that my body felt very connected to everything, ha. Nice, safe car despite crappy steering setup!

Stay awake and do not run off the road into a bunch of trees, kids.

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Old 11-11-2015, 11:57 AM
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Re: Electronic steering?

I've always found electronic steering to be too twitchy. It's gotten way better in recent years, but it's still far and away less intuitive than the analog belt activated types.

Of course, my first car didn't even have power steering at all. Talk about feel....
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Old 11-11-2015, 04:31 PM
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Re: Electronic steering?

There are are few different types of "electric" steering. The system used in the V6 Grand Cherokees is not a true electric steering system, but rather a hydraulic system that uses an electric powered pump that feeds a traditional hydraulic rack. If the pump fails, you have manual steering just as you do if your engine dies or is turned off with a full hydraulic system like the GC Hemis uses.

Then there are true electric steering racks. These have electric motors that provide the assist with no hydraulics. Early, simple, systems had the power assist motor on the steering column and a "manual" type rack. Newer systems have the power assist built into the rack. Manufacturers are working to make these systems have "feel" that is more like hydraulic systems and there a different methods to achieve that. I have a couple of VWs that use electric racks. They don't have a lot of the traditional road feel, but they work very well. The only electric rack that I have seen "fail" was from crash damage in a racecar that got hit hard enough to tear off a wheel. That rack still worked, but threw fault codes. One advantage to the electric steering is that it will work as long as there is electrical power, so even if the engine dies, you run out of gas, etc., you still have power steering. If the electrical system fails and you don't have power steering, you won't have a running engine either, so all in all it is safer than a hydraulic system. Even if you do somehow lose electrical steering assist, you will still have unassisted manual steering.

Nissan/Infiniti has a unique "steer by wire" system that works independently of the steering wheel. If this system fails, a mechanical coupler is engaged, which gives a direct connection between the steering wheel and rack. They have had some issues with that system, but nothing severe. Just as throttle by wire has become ubiquitous, I think the same may happen with other systems.

YMMV...
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