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  #13  
Old 06-01-2016, 08:59 PM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobiegillis View Post
The new 300 shifter is a dial... Explain how that helps in "fast" gear changes.

I admit I've been absent from the forums for some time. But this shifter thing...DAMN. I've driven a 300 with it for 2.5 years, no problem. Seems like an "1D10T" error all the way.
I wasn't talking about the 300's dial shifter. I've never had one. I can't imagine fumbling around to find it would be any better than trying to do a quick shift with the 14's shifter. Probably worse.

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  #14  
Old 06-01-2016, 09:02 PM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

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Originally Posted by MDBones View Post
I wasn't talking about the 300's dial shifter. I've never had one. I can't imagine fumbling around to find it would be any better than trying to do a quick shift with the 14's shifter. Probably worse.
Well the recall effects 811k vehicles including 2012-2014 (I think) Charger and 300s. Just because some dumb people can read their instrument cluster.
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  #15  
Old 06-01-2016, 09:19 PM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

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Originally Posted by dobiegillis View Post
Well the recall effects 811k vehicles including 2012-2014 (I think) Charger and 300s. Just because some dumb people can read their instrument cluster.
Sometimes that's all it takes to trigger something like this. In any case, it's a wake up call to do a better job of thinking through a design before implementing it.
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  #16  
Old 06-01-2016, 09:24 PM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobiegillis View Post
I still maintain there is nothing wrong with the 14-15 shifter

Ditto


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  #17  
Old 06-01-2016, 10:26 PM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

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Originally Posted by MDBones View Post
It could also have the opposite effect, Dan. Impacts like this to large fleet buyers can also put more pressure on the manufacturer to get the fixes done quicker, or hopefully even do a better job of designing parts and software in the first place.
I disagree. The manufacturers will probably fight harder to avoid something being labeled as a recall, thus preventing some safety improvements from being implemented. "Voluntary" recalls will get much harder and will drag things out before a recall is forced resulting in more accidents or whatever.

There could also be delays in implementing new things / new tech that are safer but could be even a tad safer later on. The result is new safer stuff won't be implemented until so idiot proof that a ton more people died waiting versus if the new thing / new tech was implemented.

When making something a "recall" effectively ground stops things which is enormously expensive, people will be afraid to innovate.

Just like forcing people to buy a seat for an infant on an airplane because it is sooooo dangerous to hold an infant when flying (sarcasm). All that did was cause people to drive more because they couldn't afford the extra seat cost or because it tipped the scale to making driving that much more less expensive. The result, many many many more infants died on the roads while none died in the air.

There are unintended consequences and some common sense is needed instead of a "zero tolerance" policy which is what the recall will become as they keep pushing it.

Would you hold off on infant vaccines because it kills 2 out of 1,000,000 infants but you want to make it to 1 or zero before introducing it into the market? Meanwhile the 2 out of 1,000,000 vaccine saves 10,000 lives before the 1 or zero vaccine could be perfected?

Economics is about human behavior and responses to the environment, it does not operate in a static environment. Make something ridiculously expensive compared to the risk and you could get more risk, not less.
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  #18  
Old 06-02-2016, 09:32 AM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan JGC View Post
I disagree. The manufacturers will probably fight harder to avoid something being labeled as a recall, thus preventing some safety improvements from being implemented. "Voluntary" recalls will get much harder and will drag things out before a recall is forced resulting in more accidents or whatever.

There could also be delays in implementing new things / new tech that are safer but could be even a tad safer later on. The result is new safer stuff won't be implemented until so idiot proof that a ton more people died waiting versus if the new thing / new tech was implemented.

When making something a "recall" effectively ground stops things which is enormously expensive, people will be afraid to innovate.

Just like forcing people to buy a seat for an infant on an airplane because it is sooooo dangerous to hold an infant when flying (sarcasm). All that did was cause people to drive more because they couldn't afford the extra seat cost or because it tipped the scale to making driving that much more less expensive. The result, many many many more infants died on the roads while none died in the air.

There are unintended consequences and some common sense is needed instead of a "zero tolerance" policy which is what the recall will become as they keep pushing it.

Would you hold off on infant vaccines because it kills 2 out of 1,000,000 infants but you want to make it to 1 or zero before introducing it into the market? Meanwhile the 2 out of 1,000,000 vaccine saves 10,000 lives before the 1 or zero vaccine could be perfected?

Economics is about human behavior and responses to the environment, it does not operate in a static environment. Make something ridiculously expensive compared to the risk and you could get more risk, not less.
I agree with Dan, this isn't a true life or death safety issue. Wasn't there a brake booster recall on 2011s? Why wasn't that done as safety stop sale? Couldn't the whole brake system fail? Maybe it was done as a stop sale but I agree this zero tolerance just because a user part, which functions perfectly, is slightly more difficult to use and requires the driver to PAY ATTENTION. YOU KNOW, the same attention required when steering a 6000 lb hunk of metal down the highway at 80mph. I just have no tolerance for stupid people.
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  #19  
Old 06-02-2016, 10:53 AM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

Meanwhile, new vehicles with defective Takata airbags, which will have to be recalled, are still being sold (including by FCA):

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/bu...a-airbags.html
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  #20  
Old 06-02-2016, 11:20 AM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

I was thinking of the Takata recalls when I started reading this thread. Who knows how long it will take to get new airbags manufactured and installed in 16.4 million vehicles recalled so far.
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  #21  
Old 06-02-2016, 01:29 PM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

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Originally Posted by MDBones View Post

Sometimes that's all it takes to trigger something like this. In any case, it's a wake up call to do a better job of thinking through a design before implementing it.
I agree 100%.

If the bean counters at FCA would have just approved the software that Mercedes has for instance (transmission will go into "Park" when the vehicle is stopped & the driver's door is opened), they wouldn't have had to issue this massive recall...which now will cost them WAY more.
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  #22  
Old 06-02-2016, 01:40 PM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobiegillis View Post
I still maintain there is nothing wrong with the 14-15 shifter
That didn't help the Audi 5000 either...

I don't believe even NHTSA has a means to recall drivers for rework and update.
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  #23  
Old 06-02-2016, 01:46 PM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobiegillis View Post
This recall is complete SHIT. I mean WTF people can't read what gear the car is in before opening the door?? We have a 2013 300 on recall because STUPID PEOPLE CAN'T READ, and I couldn't buy a left over 2015 inventory for the same idiotic reason. #UGH
I suspect that the big Takata blowup has swung the pendulum a bit too far in the
"government as mommy" direction. Few things are more dangerous than a bureaucrat afraid for their jobs.

To really add insult to injury, it appears that the exploding Takata devices are being allowed to still be installed as some bureaucrat has decided that getting shrapnel in the event of a collision is less dangerous than not having an airbag and being properly strapped in.
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  #24  
Old 06-02-2016, 01:51 PM
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Re: Freeze on RENTAL recalled vehicles too! Oh my...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaATL View Post
Meanwhile, new vehicles with defective Takata airbags, which will have to be recalled, are still being sold (including by FCA):

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/bu...a-airbags.html
A long time ago, Brock Yates, he of "Cannonball Baker" fame, suggested that instead of air bags, a lethal shotgun shell device should be mounted in the steering column, such that drivers who do not pay extremely close attention and drive vehicles with excellent brakes, steering, tires, etc. would be removed from the gene pool.

I wonder if he consulted for Takata at any time?
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