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  #25  
Old 03-10-2013, 09:21 AM
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Re: gas

Every online auto forum has its idiosyncracies when it comes to fuel economy. Nobody wants to pay high fuel prices, everyone complains that he is paying more than the next guy and they both made conscious decisions to go with SUVs/performance cars that require premium and have dismal fuel economy etc.

I guess some folks in the Jeep community just have to discover the words of Mr. Chapman: "Simplify and add lightness".

Now this may not work for everyone but you should start adding lightness by removing all the junk you carry. Perhaps you've ordered your jeep with skid plates really for those two times a year when you off-road. The rest of the time, the off-road means your wife mounting the curb. Take them off, as much as you can, if it is reasonably easy for you to add/remove them.

Or maybe all you do is a series of short trips around town. Why carry a full tank of gas all the time ? Fill it up from quarter tank to half only - inconvenient but really by how much ? We all practice that in the Subaru community - and our tanks are only 17 gallons.

density of Gasoline 6.073 lbs/gallon

Running the Jeep with a half tank instead of a full tank removes some 75 lbs from the car. That is the equivalent of your lab/retriever/Irish setter or a bit more than half your wife. And you still have a decent range.

Eventually when I get my Jeep I will start a weight savings thread. Every car I had went through some weight reduction, some more aggressive, depending on my intended use of the car. On the Subaru I found that adding some plastic panels under the car made a noticeable difference in Fuel Economy on the Foresteras well as protecting the engine. On the Legacy not so much. But metal skid plates are useless in the mountainous region of Chicago.
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  #26  
Old 03-10-2013, 10:13 AM
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Re: gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
Every online auto forum has its idiosyncracies when it comes to fuel economy. Nobody wants to pay high fuel prices, everyone complains that he is paying more than the next guy and they both made conscious decisions to go with SUVs/performance cars that require premium and have dismal fuel economy etc.

I guess some folks in the Jeep community just have to discover the words of Mr. Chapman: "Simplify and add lightness".

Now this may not work for everyone but you should start adding lightness by removing all the junk you carry. Perhaps you've ordered your jeep with skid plates really for those two times a year when you off-road. The rest of the time, the off-road means your wife mounting the curb. Take them off, as much as you can, if it is reasonably easy for you to add/remove them.

Or maybe all you do is a series of short trips around town. Why carry a full tank of gas all the time ? Fill it up from quarter tank to half only - inconvenient but really by how much ? We all practice that in the Subaru community - and our tanks are only 17 gallons.

density of Gasoline 6.073 lbs/gallon

Running the Jeep with a half tank instead of a full tank removes some 75 lbs from the car. That is the equivalent of your lab/retriever/Irish setter or a bit more than half your wife. And you still have a decent range.

Eventually when I get my Jeep I will start a weight savings thread. Every car I had went through some weight reduction, some more aggressive, depending on my intended use of the car. On the Subaru I found that adding some plastic panels under the car made a noticeable difference in Fuel Economy on the Foresteras well as protecting the engine. On the Legacy not so much. But metal skid plates are useless in the mountainous region of Chicago.
Although I understand everything your saying, im just not so sure anyone on this forum is THAT concerned with fuel economy. I mean to go about adding panels on the bottom of the car, or removing factory installed skid plates, thats a little over the top I think. I personally would never get skid plates as my vehicles will likely never even see a gravel road. Never filling your tank more than half way can save some weight sure, but if someone actually calculated out the savings over a year span, I think you would be surprised to see that any savings is simply just not worth the effort. Regardless of what type of vehicle you drive these threads are always going to come up especially when fuel prices near 5 bucks a gallon at times. If your going to drive an SUV you have to expect fuel economy is not going to be excellent and you have to deal with it. I think there are much better ways to save a few bucks rather than cutting weight from your vehicle. Skip a meal once a month lol, or buy yourself one less toy or mod throughout the year.
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  #27  
Old 03-10-2013, 11:01 AM
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  #28  
Old 03-10-2013, 11:46 AM
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Re: gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTS97Z28 View Post
Although I understand everything your saying, im just not so sure anyone on this forum is THAT concerned with fuel economy. I mean to go about adding panels on the bottom of the car, or removing factory installed skid plates, thats a little over the top I think.

Never filling your tank more than half way can save some weight sure, but if someone actually calculated out the savings over a year span, I think you would be surprised to see that any savings is simply just not worth the effort.

I think there are much better ways to save a few bucks rather than cutting weight from your vehicle. Skip a meal once a month lol, or buy yourself one less toy or mod throughout the year.
I've been with the Subaru community for 8 years now. Seen them all and done them all. I know what works and doesn't.

Adding panels - yes the Forester (2009 2.5N/A) that I bought did not have the protective engine under-tray and some other plastic panels on the car that smoothen the air flow under the car. The turbo model had that. Added the panels for protection - but they also helped with MPG. The turbo Legacy came with them. There's many other things we do on Subarus to remove weight, especially unsprung weight. From light-weight suspension components to rim and tire combos that reduce the overall wheel weights. To the weight in your glove box compartment door that makes it open slowly (gravity based). To sound insulation inside the doors. To Braille batteries. To light-weight exhausts. Some are bad ideas because it adds NVH. Some are not. Everyone has a limit. I personally do not like subwofers. Other people love theirs. That's 5 lbs or more. Combine a couple little changes and you get a bigger effect.

On the Jeep, I certainly intend to remove (some of) the skid plates and subwofer, maybe the tow pkg - I have no idea what can be done easily until I get the car. I am highly disappointed that I could not "delete" the sunroof from my order. It adds weight and complexity. But i am not afraid of wrenches. I surely did not buy a turbo Subaru [for which I changed plenty of engine transmission and suspension components] as a high fuel economy car. It's tuned on premium 93 octane - and that's it. It will run on 91 if it has to but if I am actually traveling to a 91 octane area (like Canada) I am actually re-flashing the ECU for a lower spec fuel. For peace of mind and increased reliability.


Here's several documents that probably everyone concerned with fuel economy should read and digest.

Cummins MPG Guide: Secrets of Better Fuel Economy. The Physics of MPG - Cummins Motor Company

The Influence of Aerodynamics on the Design of High-Performance Road Vehicles
part 1 and part 2

Kenworth Truck Company White Paper on Fuel Economy


DISCLAIMER: NOT everything applies directly or to the same extent from the trucking industry to passenger cars. The physics though...are the same. Nobody has ever found a way to cheat Sir Isaac Newton. Which means your under-inflated tires; your high speed driving; your cross-bars; your open sun roof; your driving style; your tires - everything that you know affects fuel economy not only does but now you can put a number to it. The number will not be the one for your Jeep, but it will be a concept you will remember. I particularly like the CUMMINS guide.
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  #29  
Old 03-10-2013, 12:15 PM
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Re: gas

Move to Venezuela, $.02/gal. or even Saudia Arabia ($.75/gal.).
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  #30  
Old 03-10-2013, 12:18 PM
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Re: gas

I'll just leave this right here for OP ...

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  #31  
Old 03-10-2013, 01:04 PM
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Re: gas

I applaud anyone who makes an extra effort to be "green", for whatever reason. I have to say, though, that in my case, fuel economy, mpg, and the like, are far from the top of my list of concerns. I certainly am not going to start stripping parts from my car to get incremental fuel savings. Even in my present ride (Buick Enclave), which we call the BuHog, for it's thirsty ways, I simply don't find it necessary. Of course we all have our own special set of circumstances. I'm retired, and drive less than 6,000 miles a year. My daily driver is actually insured as a recreational vehicle because of its low usage. Most of my miles are road trips for pleasure. I have no daily "commute". I stop by the filling station around once every 4-6 weeks. I guess if I were putting 20,000 to 100,000 miles a year on my vehicle, which I'm sure many here do, I would certainly look more closely at fuel economy. Probably the first thing I would do is get rid of the SUV and buy an econo-box. I find that for myself, the best way to save money on gas is to not drive my car unless it's necessary. So, I've ordered a new '14 JGC. And I have to say, I ordered the V6 instead of the hemi, not for gas savings, but more for the maintenance schedule. (Sorry for the ramble, but it's just a lazy Sunday afternoon around here.)
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  #32  
Old 03-10-2013, 05:01 PM
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Re: gas

I just fil whatever I happen to be driving if under half whenever I go to either of the nearby SAM's clubs.

Have a personal preference for sixes that run on 87 PON (other than my toy) and have not personally bought anything else since the last century. For some reason all of my cars for some years have gotten about the same mpg 18-20 around town and 24-26 on the road. Worst was a Fiero V-6 that never got over 22 but was a manual trans that turned 2800 rpm at 70.

One of the big factors to the terrible mpg in the 70's was 3,000 rpm at 70 with an "economy" axle.

So a small engine turning slowly at cruise in a light and aerodynamic (CDA under 6) is the best way. 3 ish liters in a 4400 lb vehicle with a CDA of 11 does surprisingly well.

Would like a diesel for my tow car but not for the near ten grand in manadatory options and upgrades. 8 speed might make sense and if the trans goes out in my '12, I'll consider upgrading.

One comment I do not agree with atol and that is removing the towing receiver: does not weigh that much, improves the weight distrobution, and is a great safety device in a rearender. Be better off exchanging the full sized spare for a can of fix-a-flat.
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  #33  
Old 03-10-2013, 07:18 PM
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Re: gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
Every online auto forum has its idiosyncracies when it comes to fuel economy. Nobody wants to pay high fuel prices, everyone complains that he is paying more than the next guy and they both made conscious decisions to go with SUVs/performance cars that require premium and have dismal fuel economy etc.

I guess some folks in the Jeep community just have to discover the words of Mr. Chapman: "Simplify and add lightness".

Now this may not work for everyone but you should start adding lightness by removing all the junk you carry. Perhaps you've ordered your jeep with skid plates really for those two times a year when you off-road. The rest of the time, the off-road means your wife mounting the curb. Take them off, as much as you can, if it is reasonably easy for you to add/remove them.

Or maybe all you do is a series of short trips around town. Why carry a full tank of gas all the time ? Fill it up from quarter tank to half only - inconvenient but really by how much ? We all practice that in the Subaru community - and our tanks are only 17 gallons.

density of Gasoline 6.073 lbs/gallon

Running the Jeep with a half tank instead of a full tank removes some 75 lbs from the car. That is the equivalent of your lab/retriever/Irish setter or a bit more than half your wife. And you still have a decent range.

Eventually when I get my Jeep I will start a weight savings thread. Every car I had went through some weight reduction, some more aggressive, depending on my intended use of the car. On the Subaru I found that adding some plastic panels under the car made a noticeable difference in Fuel Economy on the Foresteras well as protecting the engine. On the Legacy not so much. But metal skid plates are useless in the mountainous region of Chicago.
No, not on this jeep. On an wrx sti, maybe. But this is a heavy vehicle as is. It would take a lot of stripping to make any noticeable difference in fuel economy. I get why you wouldn't want skid plates, roof rack, tow hooks etc due to the added weight/ drag, but I can't find it worthwhile to add / remove them before every time I would use them, even if I only use them once in a long time.
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  #34  
Old 03-10-2013, 07:28 PM
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Re: gas

I figure the biggest issue the Jeep has in fuel economy is flat out size. It's not super aerodynamic, and it punches a huge hole through the air. That costs a lot of fuel economy, but is what allows for it to be roomy inside, have great offroad ability, have a big v8, etc.

Get in a draft behind something bigger than the Jeep and you'll be amazed by the fuel economy improvement.
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  #35  
Old 03-10-2013, 07:29 PM
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Re: gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
Every online auto forum has its idiosyncracies when it comes to fuel economy. Nobody wants to pay high fuel prices, everyone complains that he is paying more than the next guy and they both made conscious decisions to go with SUVs/performance cars that require premium and have dismal fuel economy etc.

I guess some folks in the Jeep community just have to discover the words of Mr. Chapman: "Simplify and add lightness".

Now this may not work for everyone but you should start adding lightness by removing all the junk you carry. Perhaps you've ordered your jeep with skid plates really for those two times a year when you off-road. The rest of the time, the off-road means your wife mounting the curb. Take them off, as much as you can, if it is reasonably easy for you to add/remove them.

Or maybe all you do is a series of short trips around town. Why carry a full tank of gas all the time ? Fill it up from quarter tank to half only - inconvenient but really by how much ? We all practice that in the Subaru community - and our tanks are only 17 gallons.

density of Gasoline 6.073 lbs/gallon

Running the Jeep with a half tank instead of a full tank removes some 75 lbs from the car. That is the equivalent of your lab/retriever/Irish setter or a bit more than half your wife. And you still have a decent range.

Eventually when I get my Jeep I will start a weight savings thread. Every car I had went through some weight reduction, some more aggressive, depending on my intended use of the car. On the Subaru I found that adding some plastic panels under the car made a noticeable difference in Fuel Economy on the Foresteras well as protecting the engine. On the Legacy not so much. But metal skid plates are useless in the mountainous region of Chicago.
It's funny what sparks memories. Back in '69/'70 while living in the jungle and carrying everything we owned on our backs, many of us swore that if we ever got home we would bring everything we wanted, where ever we went, as long as we didn't have to carry it on our backs. I still stick to that ... and screw the gas mileage.
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  #36  
Old 03-11-2013, 07:45 PM
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Re: gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by a990dna View Post
Well, I don't understand the comment unless you're referring to those stories our parents told about walking two miles in a snow storm to get to class.

If you want to see people at their worst, shut off the supply of oil and gas. I dealt with this directly in 1973 when I was 16 ... I was the night manager that shut off the pumps to simulate we were out of gas. The customers waiting in line for 1.5 hours, inching their way to the pump, only to get two drips of gas from the nozzle sets people off big time. I had one guy jump out of his car and beat the pump with his fist - cracking the top plastic cover.

As for me, I was fortunate because I never walked to school nor did I wait in 2 hour gas lines - I filled up my car and my parents cars after closing. I owned a 1965 Olds 442 and 1969 Camaro SS L78 in high school - fast, but both were major gas guzzlers. I could barely afford gas for my Camaro, much less the cost of oil it burned each week.

Damn I think I was only making $1.80 per hour.

Fun times ...

.
Yeah, man. i was just giving you a hard time. Sometimes I date myself and then I look at what I wrote. Then I'm like "Daaaaaaamn!"
I don't remember the gas crunch but I remember hearing my parents talk about it when I was little. I do remember when 10% was a good rate for a mortgage
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