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  #37  
Old 04-09-2013, 10:15 AM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
So, what are going to go with? Just curious. Your post isn't clear as to what you have decided on. Thanks.
At this point, waiting on the CRD.

The Ford was a great vehicle, but had lots of little annoyances (like the back doors being too big to open up wide enough for folks to get out easily in a normal sparking spot, scraping the belly on the driveway, the way the blinker is setup, etc...).

I will go check out a couple other rigs, but bang for buck, it's hard to go for anything other than the Grand.

As for knowing how the CRD will perform, I'll reserve that for when it rolls out.
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  #38  
Old 04-09-2013, 05:52 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by Jamesla30 View Post
And you would know this how? That's what I thought.
They're called numbers. When you know what they are, they mean things.

If you look at the hp and torque figures for the 3 engines, they pretty well line up with the exact result I'm talking about. The Hemi makes MUCH more hp and similar torque to the CRD, with a larger powerband. The V6 makes more hp, but less torque than the CRD. So the CRD will drive around town better than the V6, but when you plant the throttle, the V6 will make lots more hp out of its rev happy V6 and will move out. The V8 just has gobs of power everywhere and will slap the CRD and V6 around, coupling the around town torque of the CRD with way more top end than the V6. The only disadvantage it will have here is weight, which will likely be about the same as the CRD.

I'm sure the CRD will make a good cruiser though, that low end torque will move it around effortlessly like the Hemi does. But it won't win many drag races, and it's going to shift a LOT, having a narrow powerband.

You guys can hope for whatever you want, but I'm telling you right now, it's gonna be right in between the V8 and V6 in terms of performance, possibly closer overall to the lighter and higher hp V6. This isn't some new thing that Jeep has invented, diesels have been around a long time and they simply don't have the sportiness or performance of gasoline engines.

Here's a bit of reference:
2011 Volkswagen Touareg First Test - Motor Trend

The TDI Touareg clocked off a 0-60 at 7.7 seconds (aka 0.4 seconds slower than the less powerful than the Pentastart VR6). Also, apparently Touareg Hybrids are fast.
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  #39  
Old 04-09-2013, 06:41 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

FAUEE,

It's not just a matter of looking at numbers. The low end torque brings the CRD into the power band of those 8 gears much more quickly and you'll likely find yourself in the sweet spot for acceleration pretty often with those 8 speed transmissions. Having a broader power band (is that even true?) won't matter if the car doesn't get there.

Take the 335i vs 335d comparisons. The 335d has 35 HP fewer than the 335i but makes way more torque. In a straight line, the 335i wins. In a road course scenario, the 335d actually wins. I'll try to find the link to the article I read this in.

IOW, it's more than just raw numbers. There's an interaction between the 2 that means more than just individual figures.
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  #40  
Old 04-09-2013, 06:51 PM
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Numbers shumbers... im basing my decision off of those who have driven both the V8 and CRD and everytime they say they prefer the CRD. I dont care if you beat me in a drag race... I havent done that since I was 16. I just want the best engine for real world driving which the CRD wins hands down.
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  #41  
Old 04-09-2013, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesla30 View Post
Numbers shumbers... im basing my decision off of those who have driven both the V8 and CRD and everytime they say they prefer the CRD. I dont care if you beat me in a drag race... I havent done that since I was 16. I just want the best engine for real world driving which the CRD wins hands down.
:thumbs up:
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  #42  
Old 04-09-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post

They're called numbers. When you know what they are, they mean things.

If you look at the hp and torque figures for the 3 engines, they pretty well line up with the exact result I'm talking about. The Hemi makes MUCH more hp and similar torque to the CRD, with a larger powerband. The V6 makes more hp, but less torque than the CRD. So the CRD will drive around town better than the V6, but when you plant the throttle, the V6 will make lots more hp out of its rev happy V6 and will move out. The V8 just has gobs of power everywhere and will slap the CRD and V6 around, coupling the around town torque of the CRD with way more top end than the V6. The only disadvantage it will have here is weight, which will likely be about the same as the CRD.

I'm sure the CRD will make a good cruiser though, that low end torque will move it around effortlessly like the Hemi does. But it won't win many drag races, and it's going to shift a LOT, having a narrow powerband.

You guys can hope for whatever you want, but I'm telling you right now, it's gonna be right in between the V8 and V6 in terms of performance, possibly closer overall to the lighter and higher hp V6. This isn't some new thing that Jeep has invented, diesels have been around a long time and they simply don't have the sportiness or performance of gasoline engines.

Here's a bit of reference:
2011 Volkswagen Touareg First Test - Motor Trend

The TDI Touareg clocked off a 0-60 at 7.7 seconds (aka 0.4 seconds slower than the less powerful than the Pentastart VR6). Also, apparently Touareg Hybrids are fast.
When you test drive all 3 engines , then you might know what your talking about, i have and bought a new 2012 crd, the petrol v6 will not move out ahead of the crd whether it's city or highway driving, the crd is quicker than the hemi around town but they are more closely matched on the highway but plant the v8 and fuel consumption skyrockets where as the crd's economy does not get affected as much, and the transmission does actually shift less in the crd because of it's superior low end torque, if you want enjoyment in a car believe me the crd is the one to buy, bye from the land down under.
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  #43  
Old 04-09-2013, 08:18 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by Jamesla30 View Post
Numbers shumbers... im basing my decision off of those who have driven both the V8 and CRD and everytime they say they prefer the CRD. I dont care if you beat me in a drag race... I havent done that since I was 16. I just want the best engine for real world driving which the CRD wins hands down.
I have the V8 and someone in a KIA Suv tried to race me. I went maybe half throttle and left him in the dust.
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  #44  
Old 04-09-2013, 09:08 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by jgc4ever View Post
I have the V8 and someone in a KIA Suv tried to race me. I went maybe half throttle and left him in the dust.
It must not of been the 3.5 V6 sorento because it would have been the other way around.
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  #45  
Old 04-09-2013, 09:21 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by jeep2011 View Post
It must not of been the 3.5 V6 sorento because it would have been the other way around.
I dont' know; it was a new white sorento, but leaving them "in the dust" was a little strong. He was side by side but I had him by a hood length and then pulled away but we both stopped accelerating because of the speed limit. Not sure how much throttle they were giving but they were definitely trying to get ahead of me and couldn't. I was in sport mode.
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  #46  
Old 04-09-2013, 09:30 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by torifile View Post
FAUEE,

It's not just a matter of looking at numbers. The low end torque brings the CRD into the power band of those 8 gears much more quickly and you'll likely find yourself in the sweet spot for acceleration pretty often with those 8 speed transmissions. Having a broader power band (is that even true?) won't matter if the car doesn't get there.

Take the 335i vs 335d comparisons. The 335d has 35 HP fewer than the 335i but makes way more torque. In a straight line, the 335i wins. In a road course scenario, the 335d actually wins. I'll try to find the link to the article I read this in.

IOW, it's more than just raw numbers. There's an interaction between the 2 that means more than just individual figures.
The low end torque will be great for puttering around town. But the engine redlines a LOT sooner, so you have a very narrow powerband, meaning it will have to shift MORE, not less.

The V6 has a higher hp, and spins up to a couple thousand extra rpm, meaning it's going to be making more hp for longer, while the CRD will be in its "weak spot" the entirety of the run. The V6 is very much a top end motor, around town IMO it feels sluggish, the CRD is very much the opposite, a low end torque engine that will feel effortless around town, but will fall behind when asked to deliver performance.

No doubt about it, the CRD will drive better than the V6. It'll probably drive almost as good as the V8. But performance wise, it's not going to come close to the V8. It's a simple relationship between the numbers and how little powerband the CRD has.

Something to think about, the CRD's torque is all down low, it drops off after 2800 rpm. When was the last time you stomped on the loud pedal and the vehicle dropped down to 2800rpm? Probably just about never. It'll kick down to 3300rpm or so at least, already out of the CRD's powerband. So when you do really want that performance, it will be dropping off its power output.

IMO, the biggest failure of the CRD is its pricing. If it were priced equal or under the V8, it'd make sense. But as it sits, it doesn't win any points for economy because it costs so much more, and it's not a performance winner either.
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  #47  
Old 04-09-2013, 09:37 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by jeep2011 View Post
It must not of been the 3.5 V6 sorento because it would have been the other way around.
Not really, they're truthfully about equal in performance. The Jeep might have a slight advantage in 2wd form.

A friend at work has a Sorento SX, I was interested in them before I bought my Jeep as well. It's a sharp looking vehicle, one of the best looking on the market, with some impressive features for a Kia, but it had a few glaring omissions I couldn't live with. No power liftgate and the single cooled seat were the big ones. Interior materials weren't bad, but weren't on the level of the Overland either. Lack of HIDs was lame, but could have been remedied aftermarket. I also didn't care for the single side exhaust, it would have looked WAY better had it been symmetrical.

Nice vehicles overall though, certainly a looker and a great value. The LED tails look killer - Jeep could have learned a thing or two from them when they failed at making nice LED taillights.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:38 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by jgc4ever View Post
I dont' know; it was a new white sorento, but leaving them "in the dust" was a little strong. He was side by side but I had him by a hood length and then pulled away but we both stopped accelerating because of the speed limit. Not sure how much throttle they were giving but they were definitely trying to get ahead of me and couldn't. I was in sport mode.
Yeah it is all in the reactive time which kill any numbers. A moment of hesitation and even full seconds do not make a difference. The 2WD Sorento v6's kick a$$, but if it were a matching AWD model (which most are not) they are about the same as the hemi in terms of figures.
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