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  #61  
Old 04-10-2013, 05:21 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

I've been in the same boat.

Coming from a '11 Overland Summit V8 (which was ANYTHING, but fast) I ordered a '14 SRT. After a couple weeks of BS from Jeep and SRT I decided to head a different route. Test drove the Explorer (also own a '13 Mustang GT and figured another Ford would be alright) but I didn't like it to much. The goodies and gizmos are good - but from the quality standpoint ... naaahh. The X5 was a clear no (since it's to 'old'), the Touareg is a VW and after driving Audi for 12 years (and a ugly ending of this relationship) ... the only option left: the Mercedes ML.
Because I wanted something peppier I went ML550 with all the nice helpers. YES - it is more expensive - but seriously (no offense!) it's worth every penny compared to the Jeep. The V8 TwinTurbo is light-years ahead of any HEMI, the seven-speed auto is smooth and quick, the COMAND system doesn't crash and the DISTRONIC can actually stop the vehicle.

All in all I do not at all regret the higher monthly payment ...
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  #62  
Old 04-10-2013, 06:00 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by Jamesla30 View Post
LOL. You just contradicted yourself. Again, quit acting like you know what you're talking about and read the post just before of someone who has test drove all 3.
Not at all. I said that the CRD would drive better - the Hemi drives well but isn't fast by any means. On the other hand, something like a Lancer Evo drives like shit, but is fast as heck. Driving well to me is that low down torque that means I don't have to be in low gears, run high rpms, etc. It speaks nothing about the performance of a vehicle. In fact, a lot of vehicles that drive great are in fact, quite slow.

I've said it multiple times - the CRD is going to be a good powertrain for some people. People not expecting big performance, people who like toe driving experience of torque, people who live in areas where diesel is cheap, people who live at high altitudes, etc.

Tem is on the right track for the CRD - it's going to be a great range king, a vehicle that can cut the number of stops for fuel on the family road trip down and cause bladders to explode. But it's not going to be for the person who wants a vehicle that is quick, you're going to need to be even more relaxed than us V8 guys, and fact is the V8 ain't exactly a rocket, so we have to be pretty relaxed.
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  #63  
Old 04-10-2013, 06:31 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
Not at all. I said that the CRD would drive better - the Hemi drives well but isn't fast by any means. On the other hand, something like a Lancer Evo drives like shit, but is fast as heck. Driving well to me is that low down torque that means I don't have to be in low gears, run high rpms, etc. It speaks nothing about the performance of a vehicle. In fact, a lot of vehicles that drive great are in fact, quite slow.

I've said it multiple times - the CRD is going to be a good powertrain for some people. People not expecting big performance, people who like toe driving experience of torque, people who live in areas where diesel is cheap, people who live at high altitudes, etc.

Tem is on the right track for the CRD - it's going to be a great range king, a vehicle that can cut the number of stops for fuel on the family road trip down and cause bladders to explode. But it's not going to be for the person who wants a vehicle that is quick, you're going to need to be even more relaxed than us V8 guys, and fact is the V8 ain't exactly a rocket, so we have to be pretty relaxed.
I guess we have different definitions of "performance"... for me that means a car that drives well and has decent quickness down low to keep up with mountain passes and to pass easily on the highway. CRD is best engine for that in my opinion.

If I wanted my Jeep for drag racing, I would buy the SRT.

I really just don't see what advantage the HEMI has over any of the other engines. It is stuck in the past in terms of MPG and its not that much faster than the CRD (in real world driving, i.e -- when im not at the drag strip).
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:36 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by Jamesla30 View Post
I guess we have different definitions of "performance"... for me that means a car that drives well and has decent quickness down low to keep up with mountain passes and to pass easily on the highway. CRD is best engine for that in my opinion.

If I wanted my Jeep for drag racing, I would buy the SRT.

I really just don't see what advantage the HEMI has over any of the other engines. It is stuck in the past in terms of MPG and its not that much faster than the CRD (in real world driving, i.e -- when im not at the drag strip).
When you're not pushing them, they're all about the same in terms of performance. Slowly rolling out from a red light, you'd be hard pressed to notice a performance advantage from any car to any other car - the main difference would be how much throttle you use to get the same amount of thrust - but if you're just poking around on your way to work, you're probably more likely to press the throttle a certain amount and just go with it.

Personally, I fail to see why someone is buying the CRD. You're paying more for the privilege of range, and no other benefits. It won't save you money, it won't tow any better than the V8, it won't drive any better than the V8, and the fuel costs more and it will require you to fill a piss tank. And at the end of the day, it's not going to make the nice sounds of the V8 - in fact it sounds pretty damn unpleasant.

When you want to get up mountain passes quickly, or pass a car, or merge onto the highway you're going to be applying more throttle, meaning your car will downshift and will be in the upper ends of the powerband - where gasoline powered engines excel and diesels do not. I suspect you'll see rather unimpressive performance from a roll in the CRD - meaning that if you're intending to have that power for passing, you really want the V8.

Unless you're used to driving something like the rental Chevy Cruze I had a few months ago, where before you begin passing you have to say a prayer for good luck and a stiff breeze to push you along.

The Hemi is without a doubt the engine to get if you don't care about the fuel economy. For someone who drives a low amount of miles in a year, the extra cost of fuel is negligible. If you drive around 10k miles a year, the CRD will save you ~$300 a year - possibly less if you push it harder and don't manage to get EPA estimates (which lately seem to be overly optimistic on turbo vehicles - a topic for another day). Which means you'd have to own the car 7 years to pay for the extra cost of the CRD over the V8. That doesn't even factor in the extra cost of the piss tank, the fact that you're paying interest on the extra cost as opposed to incurring it as fuel expense, or the hassle of owning a unique engine in a vehicle whose dealers aren't known for their impeccable service and infallible dealer service bays.

So basically, if you're not planning to drive the vehicle 70k miles, you'd have been better off buying the Hemi and enjoying the extra power and paying for the fuel on the back end.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:49 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

At 12k miles a year, the cost of mid grade vs diesel, and the fact the the CRD is only 1300 more than the hemi (limited w/ lux), the payback is just under 4 years. That and I always exceed EPA estimates with our TDI... Would expect the same with the CRD.

And filling the piss tank will cost 30 bucks, if you can put gas in your lawnmower you can handle it.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:47 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

FAUEE, have you ever driven a diesel? Chances are, when you downshift to pass, particularly in a vehicle with 8 gears, you'll be in the 2700-3000 rpm range - right in the CRD's power band. I've never EVER thought my 335d didn't have enough power to pass when I need it. What is the peak torque for the v8? I haven't seen figures but I'd venture to guess it's 4200+ rpm. If so, a downshift will leave you wanting with 8 gears to choose from.


If driving a vehicle hard and for performance, you'll have to shift manually. The diesel will require a different shifting pattern to maximize performance than the hemi.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post

When you're not pushing them, they're all about the same in terms of performance. Slowly rolling out from a red light, you'd be hard pressed to notice a performance advantage from any car to any other car - the main difference would be how much throttle you use to get the same amount of thrust - but if you're just poking around on your way to work, you're probably more likely to press the throttle a certain amount and just go with it.

Personally, I fail to see why someone is buying the CRD. You're paying more for the privilege of range, and no other benefits. It won't save you money, it won't tow any better than the V8, it won't drive any better than the V8, and the fuel costs more and it will require you to fill a piss tank. And at the end of the day, it's not going to make the nice sounds of the V8 - in fact it sounds pretty damn unpleasant.

When you want to get up mountain passes quickly, or pass a car, or merge onto the highway you're going to be applying more throttle, meaning your car will downshift and will be in the upper ends of the powerband - where gasoline powered engines excel and diesels do not. I suspect you'll see rather unimpressive performance from a roll in the CRD - meaning that if you're intending to have that power for passing, you really want the V8.

Unless you're used to driving something like the rental Chevy Cruze I had a few months ago, where before you begin passing you have to say a prayer for good luck and a stiff breeze to push you along.

The Hemi is without a doubt the engine to get if you don't care about the fuel economy. For someone who drives a low amount of miles in a year, the extra cost of fuel is negligible. If you drive around 10k miles a year, the CRD will save you ~$300 a year - possibly less if you push it harder and don't manage to get EPA estimates (which lately seem to be overly optimistic on turbo vehicles - a topic for another day). Which means you'd have to own the car 7 years to pay for the extra cost of the CRD over the V8. That doesn't even factor in the extra cost of the piss tank, the fact that you're paying interest on the extra cost as opposed to incurring it as fuel expense, or the hassle of owning a unique engine in a vehicle whose dealers aren't known for their impeccable service and infallible dealer service bays.

So basically, if you're not planning to drive the vehicle 70k miles, you'd have been better off buying the Hemi and enjoying the extra power and paying for the fuel on the back end.
You know what, we get your point. You're not in favor of a Diesel engine. So now you can move on to another thread. You're not going to dissuade me or anyone else from buying a diesel so have a nice day.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:51 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
When you're not pushing them, they're all about the same in terms of performance. Slowly rolling out from a red light, you'd be hard pressed to notice a performance advantage from any car to any other car - the main difference would be how much throttle you use to get the same amount of thrust - but if you're just poking around on your way to work, you're probably more likely to press the throttle a certain amount and just go with it.

Personally, I fail to see why someone is buying the CRD. You're paying more for the privilege of range, and no other benefits. It won't save you money, it won't tow any better than the V8, it won't drive any better than the V8, and the fuel costs more and it will require you to fill a piss tank. And at the end of the day, it's not going to make the nice sounds of the V8 - in fact it sounds pretty damn unpleasant.

When you want to get up mountain passes quickly, or pass a car, or merge onto the highway you're going to be applying more throttle, meaning your car will downshift and will be in the upper ends of the powerband - where gasoline powered engines excel and diesels do not. I suspect you'll see rather unimpressive performance from a roll in the CRD - meaning that if you're intending to have that power for passing, you really want the V8.

Unless you're used to driving something like the rental Chevy Cruze I had a few months ago, where before you begin passing you have to say a prayer for good luck and a stiff breeze to push you along.

The Hemi is without a doubt the engine to get if you don't care about the fuel economy. For someone who drives a low amount of miles in a year, the extra cost of fuel is negligible. If you drive around 10k miles a year, the CRD will save you ~$300 a year - possibly less if you push it harder and don't manage to get EPA estimates (which lately seem to be overly optimistic on turbo vehicles - a topic for another day). Which means you'd have to own the car 7 years to pay for the extra cost of the CRD over the V8. That doesn't even factor in the extra cost of the piss tank, the fact that you're paying interest on the extra cost as opposed to incurring it as fuel expense, or the hassle of owning a unique engine in a vehicle whose dealers aren't known for their impeccable service and infallible dealer service bays.

So basically, if you're not planning to drive the vehicle 70k miles, you'd have been better off buying the Hemi and enjoying the extra power and paying for the fuel on the back end.
Man I give up. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Everything you just said was just plain incorrect. A gas engine is going to be better at traversing mountain passes than a diesel? WTF are you talking about? I'm not bashing on the HEMI, so quit making stuff up about the CRD. It CERTAINLY has its advantages over the HEMI.

You will be jealous once we get them and hear the rave reviews And I think a lot of others agree with me too.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:02 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by Jamesla30 View Post
Man I give up. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Everything you just said was just plain incorrect. A gas engine is going to be better at traversing mountain passes than a diesel? WTF are you talking about? I'm not bashing on the HEMI, so quit making stuff up about the CRD. It CERTAINLY has its advantages over the HEMI.

You will be jealous once we get them and hear the rave reviews And I think a lot of others agree with me too.
I'll be jealous if they sneak heated and cooled cupholders in. Engines in this sort of vehicle, as long as it doesn't feel strained to move the vehicle around the V6 with the 5 speed did on Overlands IMO), it's good enough. I just wish they had priced the CRD at the same price point as the Hemi truthfully. I'm a big fan of diesels, I really am, but I'm also not under the illusion that they're the greatest thing since sliced bread, they have their strong and weak points, just like a gasoline engine (and in fact, the different types of gas engines do as well). The CRD is going to be great for ambling around town, but it's certainly not going to be the "exciting" engine.

And I wish they had added heated and cooled cupholders. 300C has them, why not GC!?
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:06 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

Check out this Motor Trend video comparing diesel versions of 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee and 2013 VW Touareg: Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel and Volkswagen Touareg TDI Go Head 2 Head - WOT on Motor Trend
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:16 PM
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I am waiting for the diesel. I drove the Limited V-6 Saturday on I-70 west of Golden, Colorado and I just don't feel like it would be comfortable towing mu trailer up the mountains. I think the Hemi would but I want to get better fuel economy. Diesel os only $.20/ gallon more than regular at mu local gas station. Makes the diesel that much more attractive! I just wish they would open up the order banks!
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:24 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Check out this Motor Trend video comparing diesel versions of 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee and 2013 VW Touareg: Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel and Volkswagen Touareg TDI Go Head 2 Head - WOT on Motor Trend
Good video here, he found what we've been saying since the beginning - the Jeep is simply the better vehicle. You get better features, a more rugged vehicle, and more overall capability. The VW is sharp (and frankly I think it's better looking than the WK2.5, but I'm in the camp where the WK2.0 is better looking), but it's just not as good.

When I bought my Jeep, I went for the best SUV. Not "the best for the money", but "the best". It's that damn good, that it bests supposedly superior competition. I think it sys a lot when the Jeep can be taken VERY seriously in a comparison with the BMW, MB, VW, etc. and truthfully is better than most of them flat out. I can see the argument for the ML and the T-reg, but I preferred the more trucklike ride of the GC.

And Quadralift friggin' rocks. If you're gonna buy a nice GC, it should have it. The system is that damn good.
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