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Old 04-04-2013, 01:39 PM
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GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

The CRD delays are clearly frustrating a number of forum members and, with no end in sight, leading some to consider other options. I thought it'd be helpful to share our thoughts as a group to get different perspectives on the pros/cons of each.

I imagine everyone will have different factors that matter to them, but you might think of a factor I never considered (or vis-versa). Also, I personally don't like to buy used, so that puts a negative mark in the Touareg column from the get go (price) but that might not be as big of an issue for those who are willing to buy CPO.

Here's how I see it at first blush:
- Touareg doesn't have a lot of the "nice to have" features (all the cool electronics in the GC, reclining / fold flat rear seats, heated rear seats).
- GC V6 seems a bit slow off the line and will probably have some trouble passing slower drivers going up hill on mountain roads (but has comparable mileage).
- GC V8 gives you the power and the features but with ~17mpg.

How do you guys evaluate these three options? Are there other cars you're considering outside of this set?
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:58 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

I've been rolling this same issue around. A concern though is reliability. I spent a couple of hours last night on the club touareg forum and plenty of posts there about how expensive it is to keep one running. Consumer Reports gives them the worst possible reliability rating.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:02 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by Mcdenny View Post
I've been rolling this same issue around. A concern though is reliability. I spent a couple of hours last night on the club touareg forum and plenty of posts there about how expensive it is to keep one running. Consumer Reports gives them the worst possible reliability rating.
Yeah, VW/Audi is the only company with worse long term reliability than Jeep

I think the VW is an overall more expensive proposition. But I don't know what other car will give me the off-road capability I want with the creature comforts of the Jeep. I don't want to spend $70k on a car. I don't want to buy a Ford (or whatever else) and make upgrades to make it decently off road capable. I don't need a tank, but I just want something comparable to ORA I in a comfortably sized car for ~$45k.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:07 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

I'm looking at a couple other options:
  • Mercedes Benz ML 350BluTech
  • BMW x35d
  • Ford Explorer Sport
The Merc and the BMW are clearly, very nice rides and come with the diesel engine.

They also come with a hideous price tag to boot. However, they do have some nice CPO ones that are not nearly as expensive.

The Ford, is at the other end of the spectrum. MUCH less expensive than the Jeep CRD (with little to no negotiating I've gotten them to $5k under my 3% under invoice quote on a Overland CRD).

The fuel econ isn't bad, but you lose a lot of the "plush" factor in the Jeep, Merc, and BMW.

With all but the Jeep, you also lose a lot of the offroad capabilities (though, really, unless you are planning on going offroad, you have to ask yourself if you really need the QL system or the rear E-Diff).

I have yet to look at the Audio or the VW either. My experience with a VW before was mixed. The engine was perfect, the rest of the car... not so much.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:09 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by Mcdenny View Post
I've been rolling this same issue around. A concern though is reliability. I spent a couple of hours last night on the club touareg forum and plenty of posts there about how expensive it is to keep one running. Consumer Reports gives them the worst possible reliability rating.
Are the reliability and cost issues VW in general, the VW diesel egine or just diesels in general?
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:24 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by mceb View Post
Are the reliability and cost issues VW in general, the VW diesel egine or just diesels in general?
From my reading, lots of other items besides the diesel but certainly problems with the diesel fuel pumps.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:11 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

If the Touareg had offered cooled seats, it'd be sitting in my garage instead of my Overland. That was a great vehicle, with some amazingly ingenious features (you can program the exact height the liftgate opens to), and it looks and drives great. But the lack of the cooled seats (only offered overseas) was a dealbreaker for me - I was willing to pay more for the Touareg, but wasn't willing to pay more to get less.

My V8 gets pretty good fuel economy considering it's a big honkin' V8 with power to spare. I see 21mpg highway typically, and saw 26 cruising with a draft in FL, 25 without the draft. That's in a 4x4 Overland too.

The BMW and MB are fantastic vehicles. X5 is fairly old and truthfully it's not really showing its age at all, that's a fantastic vehicle trait. The new ML is a great vehicle as well, but both of these feel softer than the Jeep - I didn't need to be able to offroad but I liked the truck-like ride of the Jeep (and with QL, it's VERY comfortable too).

In the Overland, I felt like the V6 wasn't enough motivation. The V8 fits it perfectly. Unless you drive a lot, the V8 will actually have a lower total cost of ownership due to cheaper purchase, cheaper fuel, and no piss tank refills. The V6 will wipe the floor in a cost effectiveness study, but for me the extra cost was worth it to get the luxurious amount of power I wanted.

The Explorer Sport was very interesting to me, I didn't need the 3rd row and it wasn't out yet when I was looking. It was also pricey, and if it drove anything at all like the normal Explorer (a VERY good vehicle BTW) it was going to drive more like a crossover than a truck. Then there was the 5-0 factor, the Explorer Sport is a rocket and can get you into trouble with your local law enforcement quickly and easily. If you're looking for the performance, it's the clear winner here.

FWIW - the Touareg TDIs have massively strong resale values, far better than the Jeeps, BMWs, MBs, etc.

For me personally, I'd have had the T-reg if it had offered cooled seats. Had I waited 6 months it's entirely possible I'd have gotten the Explorer Sport (and had the tickets to prove it).
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:40 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkKent View Post
Yeah, VW/Audi is the only company with worse long term reliability than Jeep

I think the VW is an overall more expensive proposition. But I don't know what other car will give me the off-road capability I want with the creature comforts of the Jeep. I don't want to spend $70k on a car. I don't want to buy a Ford (or whatever else) and make upgrades to make it decently off road capable. I don't need a tank, but I just want something comparable to ORA I in a comfortably sized car for ~$45k.
Audi is ranked 8th by Consumer Report for reliability. Audi is the highest ranked European maker.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:03 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

I think the Touareg handles much better than the Jeep. I'm coming from an Audi A4 and am not used to the truck like feel of the Jeep. I also think the interior of the Touareg is nicer and like the aesthetics of the GPS/radio/etc better.

The Jeep is a heck of a lot cheaper and you get a lot more features for that price. I like how the back seats of the Jeep will fold nearly flat as I suspect I'll sleep in the back quite a few nights a year.

The Touareg gets points for VW's experience and support on the TDI as opposed to Jeep's failed experiment and the lack of info about the current CRD.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:12 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by ClarkKent View Post
The CRD delays are clearly frustrating a number of forum members and, with no end in sight, ...
Another posting that came out the same day as Motor Trend publishes their First Drive review of the CRD. I wonder if that means any embargo is lifted and Jeep is getting closer to delivering CRDs? Otherwise, why would Jeep want MT to stir things up even more.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:27 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

My 335d is a shop queen. It's never anything major but it's like a high maintenance girlfriend. The maintenance is free, of course, and will be for another 50k miles. But damn it's annoying to have to be at the dealer every couple of months!
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:29 PM
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Re: GC Diesel vs. V6 vs. V8 vs. Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by Red G8R View Post
Audi is ranked 8th by Consumer Report for reliability. Audi is the highest ranked European maker.
Looks like the rankings might have changed; it's a bit hard for me to decipher their different rankings (initial build quality, long term reliability) since I don't have a paid subscription. Looks like Audi jumped up 18 spots in "reliability" (who saw that coming?) but when i read the press release (scroll to the bottom) it's hard to tell if that's long term or initial reliability.

I don't have time to do more research, but long story short, I still don't go to VAG for quality - it'll take more than a year to convince me. Also, although Audi was #8, the press release states that VW was a mixed bag and that the Touareg was below average.



Quote:
Originally Posted by notalk View Post
Another posting that came out the same day as Motor Trend publishes their First Drive review of the CRD. I wonder if that means any embargo is lifted and Jeep is getting closer to delivering CRDs? Otherwise, why would Jeep want MT to stir things up even more.
notalk, the MT article came out 3 days ago. The news about another 1-month production delay came out today. Granted, the delay is yet to be confirmed (I haven't caught up on all the boards yet), but I think it's reading too much into the tea leaves to think that EVERY aspect of press coverage on this car is coordinated by Chrysler centrally. I don't think it hurts to discuss other options, even if Chrysler has seemingly finally figured out how to go ahead with production on these things (4 months after the announce date).
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