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  #157  
Old 01-20-2016, 11:39 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

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Originally Posted by rszwestko View Post
You keep your cars forever I change them often, can we move forward?
Makes a huge difference in the analysis though. Also - getting a new car every 3 years is a pretty large cost in itself.

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  #158  
Old 01-20-2016, 12:55 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

Reliability only matters when the $90,000 and up vehicle is actually riding on the roadways and not on the back of a flat bed tow truck on a regular basis or looking really sporty and appealing while resting in service bay...AGAIN
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  #159  
Old 01-20-2016, 01:55 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

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Originally Posted by CHALLENGERBIZJET View Post
Reliability only matters when the $90,000 and up vehicle is actually riding on the roadways and not on the back of a flat bed tow truck on a regular basis or looking really sporty and appealing while resting in service bay...AGAIN
Reliability by definition translates into how often the vehicle is on the back of the flat bed. I don't understand why you are advocating that Jeeps are more reliable than all other Euro trucks when that just isn't correct.
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  #160  
Old 01-20-2016, 03:04 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate View Post
Reliability by definition translates into how often the vehicle is on the back of the flat bed. I don't understand why you are advocating that Jeeps are more reliable than all other Euro trucks when that just isn't correct.
I don't doubt that perhaps you can come up with some kind of Internet statistics that would support that. But I look at it in more of a real world scenario. How many 10 and 12 year old BMW and Mercedes SUV's do you see going down the road? I never see any. All of them are brand new, to only a couple of years old. I see older Jeep Grand Cherokee's EVERYWHERE. Some are even 90's models. They're as common as dirt. Dependability is proven with AGE and MILEAGE. Not with 3 year leases, and unlimited "loaners". Or doughnuts, free coffee, and nail salon's in the Service Dept. waiting room.
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  #161  
Old 01-20-2016, 03:20 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

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Originally Posted by billt View Post
How many 10 and 12 year old BMW and Mercedes SUV's do you see going down the road? I never see any...I see older Jeep Grand Cherokee's EVERYWHERE. Some are even 90's models. They're as common as dirt.
Well apparently it may come to a surprise to you, but Glendale Arizona is not exactly the center of universe. It is not even in the center of the country.

And the kind of older Jeep Grand Cherokees (non WK2) we see on the road here are all rusted around the lower edges of the front doors and have the same electrical problem with the rear brake lights, usually the left side and the center one.
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  #162  
Old 01-20-2016, 03:26 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

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Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
And the kind of older Jeep Grand Cherokees (non WK2) we see on the road here are all rusted around the lower edges of the front doors and have the same electrical problem with the rear brake lights, usually the left side and the center one.
I don't doubt that at all. But at least they have remained on the road long enough to accumulate rust.
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  #163  
Old 01-20-2016, 04:36 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate View Post
Jeep is a bit cheaper but still sells plenty of cars in the $50-70k range (Overland/Summit and SRT builds) but is truly mediocre when it comes to service and has questionable reliability. You pay more for European car brands but you can't say you don't get more. For example - when you start talking at $100k+ you can start looking at the Porsche Cayenne Turbo, which offers faster than SRT speeds but is still capable off the pavement AND you'll get a loaner car if you drop it off at the dealership.

So I would say it like it is - for more money you can get something better (as with basically all things) but the question is whether the money is really worth it. Not only do you pay more for the Euro brands but the maintenance and repair costs are significantly higher. Is it worth it? Depends on your perspective.
Even poor Porsche suffers from dealer variability these days.
In the 70's they pulled the franchise from one Cadillac/Porsche dealer, but try that now and the franchise lawyers would be putting down deposits on new Bentleys faster than you could say "show cause"

More money isn't always better. BMW has had issues with alloy wheels that have the bad tendency to bend under normal [for bmw] driving. Porsche has had engines crap out and pretty much responded with tough scheisze. Range Rover and Jaguar almost became synonymous with sitting alongside the road waiting for the tow truck.
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  #164  
Old 01-20-2016, 04:40 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

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Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post
The FACT is that every vehicle maker has the Potential to produce a great & reliable vehicle. They all also have the potential to create a lemon.

I've had American Vehicles that suffered numerous problems and others that had almost none. The same is true of Japanese & European brands.

My 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee had a LOT of issues almost from day one. But my 2015 WK2 hasn't had a single major issue so far in almost a year.

Looking at reports from owners related to initial & long term quality should be part of every vehicle purchase decision. But you have to also understand that you could buy a jewel or a lemon from just about any company. It is how a company handles any issues that sets them apart.
Agreed.
The most reliable vehicles I've ever owned in terms of mileage and repair costs were in order:

1. 66 427 Impala
2. 95 ZJ 4.0
3. 73 Porsche 914 2.0
4. 65 Corvair Corsa 140
5. 70 Datsun 2000

On the other end of the scale
74 Volvo 164E
64 TR4
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  #165  
Old 01-20-2016, 05:28 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

Nice combo of vehicles. Add Benz,RRover and Bmw to that list even though you haven't owned them. Your other choices are nice and had to have been fun while you had them.
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  #166  
Old 01-22-2016, 09:54 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

When you buy a used Range Rover, make sure you buy a bumper to bumper warranty. It will paid off.




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  #167  
Old 01-22-2016, 11:43 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

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Originally Posted by johnnyiowa View Post
When you buy a used Range Rover, make sure you buy a bumper to bumper warranty. It will paid off.




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Terrifying. A few things I get from that:

- Remember, this is a third party warranty, not a manufacturer's warranty. I used to deal with that with my Jaguar and they fought me every freakin' time I made a claim.

- That poor guy still had to drag his car to the dealer numerous times over 33k miles for pretty substantial repairs. Meanwhile, I had exactly 1 major repair over 70k+ miles (failed water pump), and I'll need to get a heated seat fixed on my wk2. This guy had failed suspension, numerous leaks, failed sensors, a failed horn, failed steering column, etc. None of my Jeep vehicles had anything like that in that mileage. Come to think of it, none of them had that many problems total, including my old ZJ that I kept for almost 200k miles before selling it to someone else.

- He is lucky he didn't get in an accident from this. I rely on things like my backup sensors - if it doesn't beep there's a reasonable chance I'll hit something. Same with the horn - you're (hopefully) pressing it for a reason.

- He isn't even at 100k miles. If this is the amount of crap that happened, you can safely conclude that he is going to need to get rid of that car before the 125k mile warranty expires.

My conclusion from all that isn't so much that he needed the car warranty (which he undoubtedly did), but that he made a huge mistake buying that car. In a nutshell, this is why I always shy away from Land Rovers.
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  #168  
Old 01-22-2016, 11:55 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee vs the new Range Rover Sport

I have to admire that guys sense of humor. How he could remain so upbeat after dealing with that overpriced piece of euro trash is beyond me. I only wish the best for him. However if he keeps that turd on wheels for another 33,000 miles, I doubt he'll be treated any more kindly than he was the last 33,000. Poor guy.
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