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  #133  
Old 02-17-2014, 04:45 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

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Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
The answer is your tires. They have residual heat. They start to melt the snow/ice and form a water layer over re-freezing water right below that. The coefficient of static friction drops and suddenly...wheee...
Yep...
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  #134  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:25 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

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Originally Posted by Summit View Post
Agreed, parking break for the Jeep clearly is vital...but 10 cars in 12 years. Same hill all 12 of them. NEVER USED PARKING BREAK. This is only vehicle to do this EVER.
Parking brake is in the user manual, and it is a really good idea.
However, on a slight incline the parking position on the transmission should be
able to hold the vehicle--and something is wrong if it won't.

Has the OP actually queried a qualified service tech about this?

If the parking position on the transmission was truly a null event, then why would
Jeep bother with a recall on the old ZJ to replace the transmission portion?
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  #135  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:27 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

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Originally Posted by sterno View Post
barboots shows a location in Australia, which would be right-hand drive. This topic came up in another thread recently. The right-drive Grand Cherokee still has the parking brake pedal on the left, which puts it by the transmission hump instead of being tucked neatly out of the way like it is on left-drive models. It wouldn't surprise me if natural sitting position or limb length made the pedal awkward for some of our overseas friends.
Good parking brakes are hand actuated by a readily reachable lever.

Unfortunately, without a really long lever arm, there is no way you can get the
engagement force of a foot operated unit.

Thus, thousands if not millions of drivers will be forever lacking the opportunity
to make an old fashioned hand brake turn so beloved by drivers of classic
british sports cars.
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  #136  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:29 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

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Originally Posted by padgett View Post
err folks, while I agree that the parking brake is a good idea, in the US the FMVSS 114 requires that "Vehicles must not move more than 150mm on a 10% grade when the gear selection control is locked in “park”."

Now the issue here seems to be that the vehicle says it is in Park but isn't really but you cannot turn the engine off unless the vehicle is in Park.

So a reasonable person would expect that if the engine turned off then it was in Park and should be safe to hold on a 10% grade.

If anyone says anything else then they are not familiar with the law.

Note: IANAL so if in doubt, ask one.

ps I have learned with my '12 to be absolutely sure the engine turned off when I push the button.
Thank you for some actual facts.

One had almost begun to think they were an extinct species.
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  #137  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:31 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
All well and good, but when your luck runs out...don't blame the vehicle because of something that happens because you decided not to follow the instructions for its use in the manual.
Except, if the vehicle is required by law to have such a device capable of meeting
certain requirements...
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  #138  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:34 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNUKE View Post
I have to own up as a safety hypocrite. I usually sit 3kmh over the speed limit, and will do a damn site if more than that if overtaking.
Only 3 km?
Here in the USofA, you can usually get by with about a 10% overage on open roads away from kids, elders, etc. 5 mph over is also pretty easy outside of high risk zones.
Exceptions are when there is a long holiday with public notice of zero tolerance, or the understandable situation where an on-duty officer has been killed by some dipwit.
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  #139  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:37 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
Again, it does not matter whether this is an acceptable operation or not. Not in the slightest. Any vehicle can suffer an unintended failure of the transmission to hold it from moving. Any vehicle. They aren't designed to fail, but it can and will happen. That's why you have a parking brake. Use it. Stop thinking backup systems like that are just for show--they have a purpose and a meaning to them.

The simple fact is that, if everything you said is exactly as it was (no reason to doubt you), then your vehicle suffered from a failure to either engage the parking pawl in the transmission, or it slipped out. That is obviously not intentional and is a problem. However, your failure to use the parking brake as intended compounded the problem. Had you used it, you wouldn't be "fearing for your children" or claiming the vehicle tried to kill you. This issue was twofold: 1) Something broke. 2) You were not using the system designed to protect you if that something broke.

Sympathies for you in reference to the part that broke. Shame on you for not protecting yourself and others from the consequence of said thing breaking.
Good points. Overly self righteously made by any standard, but some good points nontheless.

However, may I possibly point out that parking brakes ALSO are subject to failure modes? This isn't a theoretical failure, in fact on some designs, the parking brake
is LESS robust than the parking lock on an automatic transmission.
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  #140  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:38 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

There was a similar recall for the 95.
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  #141  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:51 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by lstowell View Post
If the parking position on the transmission was truly a null event, then why would
Jeep bother with a recall on the old ZJ to replace the transmission portion?
Its not a null event, its just not meant to be used all on its own.

Quote:
Except, if the vehicle is required by law to have such a device capable of meeting
certain requirements...
It is, and it does. However, as has been demonstrated here ad nauseum, the manufacturer says to use the parking brake...and using the parking brake is really a smart thing to do.

We are still getting to the bottom of what happened with the OP's situation, with it only seeming to happen on an icy driveway I think its the vehicle sliding down on the ice more than its the pawl failing.

Quote:
However, may I possibly point out that parking brakes ALSO are subject to failure modes? This isn't a theoretical failure, in fact on some designs, the parking brake
is LESS robust than the parking lock on an automatic transmission.
Of course. And again, the parking brake and parking pawl are meant to be used TOGETHER. It would be no more appropriate to park the vehicle in neutral with the parking brake applied than it would be to park the vehicle in Park with no brake applied.
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  #142  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:52 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlanding View Post
Why haven't automakers made the parking brake automatically apply when put in park? If it's a must to use the parking brake, what's the point in park vs neutral?

And I'm being serious, not stirring the pot. Is it just something that hasn't caught on? Or is there a reason? I'm not saying we are too lazy to do the second step. But if automakers really intent for the parking brake to be used EVERY TIME, and they have to ability to make it electronically engage, why haven't they done it?
I think that this has actually been done--don't recall the vehicle unfortunately but it was a luxo barge.

It would be just as easy to modify the park function on the transmission to lock the drive train.

Some vehicles can be shifted into park while still moving [which some vehicles don't interlock], where locking up all the wheels could be quite risky at speed. Most of those make a horrid ratcheting noise if you do this, but never seemed to damage the
transmission pawl.

There MAY be some counterintuitive laws requiring multiple locking mechanisms so you'd need a double fault in order to lose function--dunno.
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  #143  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:56 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

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Originally Posted by GoHerd View Post
Yes, father. Thank you sir, may I have another?
Did the sales folks at your dealership give you a reading test before they would sell you the vehicle?

If NOT, well THAT'S JUST WRONG and is PROOF that the manufacturer is NOT TAKING THIS SUFFICIENTLY SERIOUSLY and YOU ARE NOT PROTECTING YOUR FAMILY and your UNBORN grandchildren or the STRAY DOGS in the neighborhood.

And I am gonna repeat this until HELL FREEZES OVER, because I do not actually exist, I am a 'bot that merely scans forums for the topic and REPEATS INANE NONSENSE OVER AND OVER.
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  #144  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:59 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Do you not know how to quote multiple posts in one post?

Copy and paste between the quote tags. You don't have to make 9 back to back posts in one thread.

Quote:
And I am gonna repeat this until HELL FREEZES OVER, because I do not actually exist, I am a 'bot that merely scans forums for the topic and REPEATS INANE NONSENSE OVER AND OVER.
I'm going to respond to any post that says its okay not to use the parking brake every time you park with a response showing why that viewpoint is wrong yes. If you don't want me to respond any longer...I'd suggest you stop posting that incorrect information.
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