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  #145  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:00 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexlion View Post
To the sticklers for parking brake use every time:
If Jeep wrote in the manual that a driver must check his dipstick prior to every start-up, would you do it?
One should always check their dip stick before operating.
This does preclude just over half of the world's population though.


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  #146  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:05 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
The JGC clearly has some quality issues. Doesn't alter the fact that deliberately not applying the parking brake when parking is negligent and, in many jurisdictions, illegal.
So is having a park position on an automatic transmission that indicates it is in park when it is not actually in park. Or, a park position where that does not prevent vehicle movement beyond certain limits of less than a couple feet on an incline of 10 degrees or less.

Trivially researched. As are the recalls on vehicles which do NOT meet these standards--although those cover design/implementation defects as opposed to a very small number of vehicles with broken hardware. It doesn't take very many of those 'broken" instances to trigger a recall though.
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  #147  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:17 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHerd View Post
Well I got to thinking this afternoon, "I'm gonna go check out the manual again."

You know, the only printed one that actually is provided with the vehicle upon delivery. The "User Guide" designed to stay in the glove box? I didn't recall any emphasis on using the parking brake but wanted to check.

I'm still looking but so far, this is all I could find in the manual provided with my Jeep about using the transmission. No mention in two places titled "Operating Your Vehicle" about engaging the parking brake. It also does not say anything about disengaging the parking brake before shifting into reverse or drive.

In the section "Getting Started" in which they refer to "stopping," it says only to bring the vehicle to a stop, and then "place the shift lever in the PARK position," and then turn it off. Nothing about engaging the parking brake.

Before we again hear about the now-infamous "Page 445" of the owner's manual, I did actually download the PDF the day I bought it and also ordered the hard copies from Chrysler. I highly doubt most owners are that particular or bothered.

So if it is such a safe operating essential to use the parking brake, why is it not covered in the user guide provided upon delivery?

Again, I'm not suggesting I bear no responsibility for the safe operation of the vehicle. What I am suggesting is that Jeep does not emphasize that the parking brake is necessary for safe operation of the vehicle, as some posters have said is quite clear. The user guide certainly doesn't bear evidence of that.


Postimage.org / gallery - IMG 6373, IMG 6374
I wonder if the manual [transmission] park release is mis-adjusted on yours?

I found this on page 6 of the PDF version of Users Guide in the Introduction/Welcome. Otherwise, except for notes involving the
transmission neutral position, the User Guide--the only thing provided in
hard copy, is silent on the issue. [I still agree with using the parking brake, but there is considerable bull excrement being tossed around repeatedly here]



• Never use the ‘PARK’ position as a substitute for the parking brake. Always
apply the parking brake fully when parked to guard against vehicle movement
and possible injury or damage.
• Refer to your Owner's Manual on the DVD for further details.

Apparently your dealer also failed to properly qualify you for delivery by either
providing you a hard copy of the Owners Manual, or making you prove you had
a workstation/computer with a DVD device on it.

There is a note that the neutral override does require the parking brake, where that would sorta imply that the park position is expected to hold the vehicle as required by law...

You or others could be injured if you leave the vehicle unattended with the
transfer case in the N (Neutral) position without first fully engaging the parking
brake. The transfer case N (Neutral) position disengages both the front and rear
driveshafts from the powertrain and will allow the vehicle to move regardless of
the transmission position. The parking brake should always be applied when
the driver is not in the vehicle.
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  #148  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:20 PM
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Im not gonna argue with anyone here, but I seen lsd tossed around a couple of times as a possible solution to the issue. Problem is a lsd will not prevent a car from rolling as the differential has absolutely nothing to do with the parking pawl in the transmission. The only mechanical difference between an open diff and an lsd is that when you start losing traction on your drive wheels an lsd will send power to the wheem with traction. An open diff will send power to the path of least resistance, meaning if you spin one wheel on a rwd, that wheel will get all the power. So to clarify, the differential has nothing to do with parking.
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  #149  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:21 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongjeff View Post
okay, I get it you want us to use the parking brake. it is a good idea. but I wanna focus on another detail in your multiple single argument point you been making.

You have been adamant on the fact that it is in the manual to use it when parking. The OP has posted picture proof that this is not the case on his MY14. I think it may help your argument if you post proof from your manual that would say otherwise. Post page 449 for us from your manual so we can see it.

I know you like to correct wrong info, but it does come off as troll-ish to beat up everyone with the same point. I correct people too, but when I do, I give the correct info and move on. if they have any questions on it, then I give additional info on it.
It is in the Owners Manual... you know, the one that you do not get a printed copy of with the vehicle.

Interesting, recent changes to prevent kids from moving the vehicle OUT of park [transmission] are now geared to preventing this without the key in the vehicle. Wonder how they plan on this being done on the sensing fob type vehicles? Lock the drivers shoulder harness? Lock all exit doors?


S4.2.1. (a) Except as provided in S4.2.2.(a) and (b), the key-locking system required by
S4.2. in each vehicle which has an automatic transmission with a "park" position
shall, when tested under the procedures in S5.2, prevent removal of the key unless
the transmission or transmission shift lever is locked in "park" or becomes locked
in "park" as the direct result of removing the key.
(b) Each vehicle shall not move more than 150mm on a 10% grade when the
transmission or transmission shift lever is locked in "park."
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  #150  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:33 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

lstowell...can you please confine your multiple quotings of old posts in this thread to one post? You've posted 13 individual times now replying individually to old posts in the thread. This conversation is still ongoing in between your repeated postings and its very distracting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongjeff
Im not gonna argue with anyone here, but I seen lsd tossed around a couple of times as a possible solution to the issue. Problem is a lsd will not prevent a car from rolling as the differential has absolutely nothing to do with the parking pawl in the transmission. The only mechanical difference between an open diff and an lsd is that when you start losing traction on your drive wheels an lsd will send power to the wheem with traction. An open diff will send power to the path of least resistance, meaning if you spin one wheel on a rwd, that wheel will get all the power. So to clarify, the differential has nothing to do with parking.
This was originally brought up as a solution by the Jeep dealer. I agree it wouldn't be of value really.

BUT, I think their logic is that with an open differential really the parking pawl in the transmission only holds one wheel immobile, because all it does is hold the output shaft immobile. I think their thought was installing an LSD would cause it to hold both wheels immobile.

Theoretically with a mechanical LSD there might be something to that idea, but its dubious at best I agree.
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  #151  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:36 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Warning box on page 405 says don't leave the vehicle unless it is in park, the parking brake is set, and the engine is turned off.

That's the OM version 5 for the Grand Cherokee.


And on page 410

"PARK (P)

This range supplements the parking brake by locking the
transmission. The engine can be started in this range.
Never attempt to use PARK while the vehicle is in
motion. Apply the parking brake when leaving the
vehicle in this range."
And another warning box on page 411.
And on page 413
"NEUTRAL (N)

Use this range when the vehicle is standing for prolonged
periods with the engine running. The engine may be
started in this range. Apply the parking brake and shift
the transmission into PARK if you must leave the vehicle."



On page 445

"PARKING BRAKE
Before leaving the vehicle, make sure that the parking
brake is fully applied and place the shift lever in the
PARK position."

Page 447

"The parking brake should always be applied whenever the driver is not in the vehicle."


I quit looking after this. I don't understand how anybody who can read could think the owner's manual ignores the topic. I know the US is way down in reading comprehension, but this stuff is pretty straight forward.

I will still decide on my own if/when I will use the brake.


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  #152  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstowell View Post
It is in the Owners Manual... you know, the one that you do not get a printed copy of with the vehicle.

Interesting, recent changes to prevent kids from moving the vehicle OUT of park [transmission] are now geared to preventing this without the key in the vehicle. Wonder how they plan on this being done on the sensing fob type vehicles? Lock the drivers shoulder harness? Lock all exit doors?

S4.2.1. (a) Except as provided in S4.2.2.(a) and (b), the key-locking system required by
S4.2. in each vehicle which has an automatic transmission with a "park" position
shall, when tested under the procedures in S5.2, prevent removal of the key unless
the transmission or transmission shift lever is locked in "park" or becomes locked
in "park" as the direct result of removing the key.
(b) Each vehicle shall not move more than 150mm on a 10% grade when the
transmission or transmission shift lever is locked in "park."
I know all this, my 08 dose this. I cant take the key out unless it is in park. Engine will not start unless its in park or neutral. I do think its a good idea tho for it to not let the car out of park unless the key is present.
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  #153  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
lstowell...can you please confine your multiple quotings of old posts in this thread to one post? You've posted 13 individual times now replying individually to old posts in the thread. This conversation is still ongoing in between your repeated postings and its very distracting.

This was originally brought up as a solution by the Jeep dealer. I agree it wouldn't be of value really.

BUT, I think their logic is that with an open differential really the parking pawl in the transmission only holds one wheel immobile, because all it does is hold the output shaft immobile. I think their thought was installing an LSD would cause it to hold both wheels immobile.

Theoretically with a mechanical LSD there might be something to that idea, but its dubious at best I agree.
Thats just the sales people talking. Most of them dont actually know how things work. Some do tho, but mostly not. Now if they designed the parking pawl into the rear axle then it would be possible. In all honesty I think it can fairly easily be done, by putting the park pawl on the diff carrier. It would have to be electronic but seeing how we already have electronic lsd on the higher models.
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  #154  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_de View Post

Warning box on page 405 says don't leave the vehicle unless it is in park, the parking brake is set, and the engine is turned off.

That's the OM version 5 for the Grand Cherokee.

And on page 410

"PARK (P)
This range supplements the parking brake by locking the
transmission. The engine can be started in this range.
Never attempt to use PARK while the vehicle is in
motion. Apply the parking brake when leaving the
vehicle in this range."



---
All you did was say what has been said.
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  #155  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:44 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongjeff View Post
Thats just the sales people talking. Most of them dont actually know how things work. Some do tho, but mostly not. Now if they designed the parking pawl into the rear axle then it would be possible. In all honesty I think it can fairly easily be done, by putting the park pawl on the diff carrier. It would have to be electronic but seeing how we already have electronic lsd on the higher models.
I think it was the service adjuster at Jeep... They don't know how things typically work either.

OR...you can just use the parking pawl thats there and use the parking brake, instead of trying to design and implement a "better parking pawl"

Quote:
All you did was say what has been said.
That was his point...
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  #156  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post

I think it was the service adjuster at Jeep lol. They don't know how things typically work as well.

OR...you can just use the parking pawl thats there and use the parking brake, instead of trying to design and implement a "better parking pawl"

That was his point...
Lol. I just think it would be better to move the pawl to the rear end. Then you would have at least one wheel imobilized and if you have an lsd then the whole axle would be locked.
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