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  #25  
Old 02-14-2014, 06:17 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

If you get in the habit of using your parking brake...it becomes second nature.

My issue now is that the Lexus has an automatic electronic parking brake, so when I dive the Jeep I have to remember to activate the brake manually. But I do...because I don't want to kill myself or someone else.
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Old 02-14-2014, 06:24 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotspur View Post
You're not really trying to tell us that the GC's parking brake is difficult to use, are you? That is simply ridiculous. Circus act? Give us all a break...and give yourself a "brake."
barboots shows a location in Australia, which would be right-hand drive. This topic came up in another thread recently. The right-drive Grand Cherokee still has the parking brake pedal on the left, which puts it by the transmission hump instead of being tucked neatly out of the way like it is on left-drive models. It wouldn't surprise me if natural sitting position or limb length made the pedal awkward for some of our overseas friends.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:14 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by sterno View Post
It wouldn't surprise me if natural sitting position or limb length made the pedal awkward for some of our overseas friends.
It is in the way for RHD vehicles.

I just posted this in the other thread, but it can be here too.


I can't begin to understand this logic. You have safety concerns, yet the one simple tool you have available, applying the parking brake, is not part of your regular procedure when parking a car.
I understand that the car should not be moving so easily compared to the gradients you are saying, however, any car being but into Park is not secure until the parking brake is applied. As such if you are seriously concerned about your kids, yourself and others, then why the hell are you not applying the park brake always.

Would you have the kids in the car without the seatbelt, I would hope not, so don't leave the car in park without the parking brake on.
It is illegal in this country and I know most states in the US to leave your car without it in park for this very safety reason, you are putting other peoples lives at risk.

Car should not be moving so easily but you should not ever be leaving any car without applying park brake.
Hopefully they can eventually find why it is moving so easily.
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  #28  
Old 02-14-2014, 10:37 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Some of the comments in this thread have sounded self-righteous and somewhat mean-spirited IMO. What the posters don't seem to realize is the differences in cultural upbringing from area to area and from era to era.

I, probably like many other people of my age group (age 55) in the USA (midwest region, at least), grew up knowing that the cable-actuated device is an emergency brake. This is what everyone I knew called it. When I learned to drive, adults explained to me that it was used when a manual transmission vehicle was being parked while in neutral, when any vehicle was parked on an incline, or when the normal braking system failed on a vehicle needing to be stopped. Using the emergency brake in other situations (like an auto tranny in 'park' on level ground) was acceptable but unnecessary... in fact, the idea was conveyed that only paranoid people would do that.

When people called the emergency brake a parking brake, to me that just seemed like an alternate name; it didn't imply anything to me about a change in usage.

When mention was made in vehicle owner's manuals about using that device whenever parking, the idea I would get is probably the same idea most anyone would get: the lawyers have gotten their paws on the thing and have advised this revision as a precautionary measure against being sued. Not that they thought it likely for a vehicle in 'park' to roll, but they wanted to avoid anyone going to court and characterizing a lightning-strike-rare occurrence as manufacturer's negligence.

Ok, now. It would appear that things have changed. More people, and more jurisdictions, have developed an expectation (or even a requirement) that this device be used whenever the vehicle is parked. Texas passed a (largely unknown and ignored) law in 1995 mandating use of a parking brake. Minnesota's law says, "No person driving or in charge of a motor vehicle shall permit it to stand unattended without effectively setting the brake thereon and turning the front wheels to the curb or side of the highway." I don't know what percentage of the 50 states are adopting such laws, but it seems to be a growing phenomenon.

But it is by no means universal. Michigan's law simply says, "(1) A person shall not allow a motor vehicle to stand on a highway unattended without engaging the parking brake or placing the vehicle in park and stopping the motor of the vehicle. If the vehicle is standing upon a grade, the front wheels of the vehicle shall be turned to the curb or side of the highway." Note that nothing is said about parking along a city street, in a driveway, or in a parking lot. (Section 257.676) Oklahoma has no applicable law AFAIK.

So maybe some of us will want to take this knowledge, evaluate it, and consider a change in our behavior pattern. But it is not appropriate for people to demean, belittle, or browbeat those who have a differing viewpoint.

A pawl on a relatively new vehicle should be capable of holding a vehicle on a slight angle. The manufacturer may have insulated itself from liability (or maybe not), but it really has no excuse.
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  #29  
Old 02-14-2014, 11:29 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Great post Rexlion. Thank you for that.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:01 AM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Wow im kind of surprised to see a few guys on here that are absolutely extremely stringent on using the parking brake. I dont own a 2014 GC, but on any automatic vehicles I have owned I NEVER use the e-brake when parking unless im on a decent grade and thats just to save the transmission from a huge clunk when going to and from park. I dont know anyone that ever uses an e-brake when parking their cars. You can walk up and down parking lot rows and you will see NO cars parked with the e-brake pulled.
My current vehicle is manual so I obviously always use it, but even a person like myself being a manual driver I absolutely do not use the e-brake when parking my automatics.

Im sorry you guys can flame me all you want, but you are for sure the minority when it comes to parking an automatic and using e-brake...or parking brake whatever you want to call it. I have also never heard of a car moving on its own after being put into park. Well ofcourse until now with the 2014 Grand Cherokee. For what its worth I live in IL near Chicago so everything is flat. Maybe thats why its non-existant here and surprising to me.
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  #31  
Old 02-15-2014, 09:21 AM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

err folks, while I agree that the parking brake is a good idea, in the US the FMVSS 114 requires that "Vehicles must not move more than 150mm on a 10% grade when the gear selection control is locked in “park”."

Now the issue here seems to be that the vehicle says it is in Park but isn't really but you cannot turn the engine off unless the vehicle is in Park.

So a reasonable person would expect that if the engine turned off then it was in Park and should be safe to hold on a 10% grade.

If anyone says anything else then they are not familiar with the law.

Note: IANAL so if in doubt, ask one.

ps I have learned with my '12 to be absolutely sure the engine turned off when I push the button.
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  #32  
Old 02-15-2014, 01:08 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexlion View Post
Some of the comments in this thread have sounded self-righteous and somewhat mean-spirited IMO. What the posters don't seem to realize is the differences in cultural upbringing from area to area and from era to era.
The "self-righteous" responses are in response to a post where the poster made the claim that "the vehicle tried to commit vehicular manslaughter". A vehicle does not commit manslaughter, it rolled because the parking brake wasn't engaged.

Regardless of what you may or may not have learned, it is not an emergency brake...its a parking brake. My father was older than you and he taught me to always use the parking brake when parking. I remember a time when my mother had her early 1980s vehicle roll off the parking prawl and roll. This has always happened. The transmission will hold the car in place on its own 9 times out of 10, but if it gets bumped or is not quite all the way engaged...it will roll. This is why you need to use the parking brake every time you park.

The owners manual for every car I've ever had has specified that the parking brake should be used when parking. The drivers manual I had when I learned to drive in the 90s specified that the parking brake should always be used.

I direct you to page 379 of my 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee's manual:

Quote:
Before leaving the vehicle, make sure that the parking brake is fully applied and place the shift lever in the PARK position.
Quote:
Never use the PARK position as a substitute for the parking brake. Always apply the parking brake fully when parked to guard against vehicle movement and possible injury or damage.
Quote:
WARNING! Always fully apply the parking brake when leav- ing your vehicle, or it may roll and cause damage or injury. Also be certain to leave the transmission in PARK. Failure to do so may allow the vehicle to roll and cause damage or injury.
From the manual for my 2013 Lexus GS350:

Procedures for parking the vehicle:

Quote:
Stopping the engine
1 Stop the vehicle.
2 Shift the shift lever to P.
3 Set the parking brake. (→P. 186)
4 Press the engine switch.
5 Release the brake pedal and check that “POWER ON” on the multi- information display is off.
Going to page 186:

Quote:
NOTICE!
■ When parking the vehicle
Before you leave the vehicle, set the parking brake, shift the shift lever to P and
make sure that the vehicle does not move.
The manual for my old 2003 Lexus ES300:

Quote:
1. Bring the vehicle to a complete stop.
2. Depress the parking brake fully to securely apply the parking brake.
3. With the brake pedal held down with your foot, shift the selector lever to the “P” position.
My old 2010 ES350:

Quote:
■ Parking the vehicle
With the shift lever in D, depress the brake pedal.
Set the parking brake. (→P.132)
Shift the shift lever to P. (→P. 128)
Press the “ENGINE START STOP” switch and stop the engine.
Lock the door, making sure that you have the electronic key on your person.
Manual for a 95 Cadillac Seville my dad had:

Quote:
CAUTION: It is dangerous to get out of your vehicle if the shift lever is not in PARK (P) with the parking brake firmly set. Your vehicle can roll.
Manual for a 1997 Ford Explorer I had:

Quote:
Always set the parking
brake fully and make sure that the gearshift is securely latched in P
(Park) (automatic transmission) or in 1 (First) (manual transmission).
This is not a Chrysler or Jeep thing...and its not a new thing. The bottom line is automobile manufacturers are instructing us to use the parking brake whenever we park.

Just because a large group of people does things the wrong way doesn't make that way any less wrong. I know that a lot of Amercians think its an "emergency brake" and that it doesn't need to be used on a vehicle with an automatic transmission...they are wrong. My wife was taught to drive not using the parking brake. She uses it now. I use emphasis and such because this is really important.

Please use the parking brake! You can't depend on the transmission to hold the vehicle in 100% of situations, so whether it was what you were taught or if you've never done it before and been fine...do the smart thing for you, your family and those around you and from this point forward...use the parking brake.
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  #33  
Old 02-15-2014, 03:31 PM
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Doesn't it concern you that the Jeep is moving when in "park"? That's what this is about. And people have been barking that it's because they aren't using the parking brake. Like hell. I've never had a vehicle that moves when the gearshift is placed in park. So obviously something is wrong, regardless of the parking brake. My whole life, I've never seen someone also use the parking/emergency brake every time they park their car. Unless it's a manual transmission of course.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:36 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlanding View Post
Doesn't it concern you that the Jeep is moving when in "park"? That's what this is about. And people have been barking that it's because they aren't using the parking brake. Like hell. I've never had a vehicle that moves when the gearshift is placed in park. So obviously something is wrong, regardless of the parking brake. My whole life, I've never seen someone also use the parking/emergency brake every time they park their car. Unless it's a manual transmission of course.
No...it doesn't concern me. Read everything above I've just posted from the manuals of 6 different cars from 4 different manufacturers the oldest of which is nearly 20 years old. They ALL say that the parking brake must be engaged when the vehicle is parked or it can move even if its in park. All of them. Its all right there.

Every car I have ever owned rocks some when put in park and when the service brakes are engaged.

The manufacturer of your vehicle is saying the parking brake needs to be engaged. If your Jeep moves when in park and you didn't set the brake...its your fault. Its right there in the manual! As it is in every other manual for every other car.

Now you have met plenty of people who use the parking brake every time they park, they've posted in this thread. You've been doing it wrong, now you have an opportunity to start parking safely and correctly.

Looked up the manual of a 2008 Acura Tl:

Quote:
Always use the parking brake when you park your vehicle. Make sure the parking brake is set firmly, or your vehicle may roll if it is parked on an incline.
If your vehicle has an automatic transmission, set the parking brake before you put the transmission in Park. This keeps the vehicle from moving and putting pressure on the parking mechanism in the transmission.
if you want to look this up yourself, go for it:

http://justgivemethedamnmanual.com

Lots of PDF's of owners manuals for many makes, models and years. Find one that does not say to set the parking brake EVERY time you park.
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  #35  
Old 02-15-2014, 05:12 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Bravo, SW03ES. I can't believe some of the nonsense I'm reading here. My "limb length" is a 36 inch inseam and applying the parking brake is not a "circus act." Whether it is next to the transmission tunnel or the kick panel by the driver's door, the parking brake pedal is right by your left foot. Lame excuse.
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:13 PM
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Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexlion View Post
Some of the comments in this thread have sounded self-righteous and somewhat mean-spirited IMO. What the posters don't seem to realize is the differences in cultural upbringing from area to area and from era to era.
I am touchy on this as my best friends girlfriend was killed when her vehicle that was placed in Park rolled forward on a slight down hill slope, pinning her against a wall of the car park.
It was a slow painful and death, as her internal organs were crushed. That wonderful knowledge that to save you they need to move the car, but that in all likelihood that when they do, you will die.
She was 19.

So I don't care about any damn excuses anyone has. As has just been posted, it has been a longly held process to use the damn parking brake for everyones safety.
You are placing several tonnes of vehicle that is designed to move in areas where other people and property are. As far as i am concerned it is highly negligent to walk away and leave it without using this device designed to be used when the vehicle is in park.
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