Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 -

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #49  
Old 02-15-2014, 09:26 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 448
Thanks: 0
Thanked 45 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 4981
Peter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett View Post
What is good practice and what is the law are two different things. The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard in the US is clear: if the transmission has a PARK position, it must be able to keep the vehicle from moving more than 150mm (about 6 inches) on a 10% incline. Years ago the parking brake on the Pontiac Fiero was subject to a recall because they were failing but it only affected manual transmissioned cars because in a automatic PARK was considered enough. CJF has been playing fast and loose with the FMVSS relating to automagic transmission positions anyway see 571 Standard No. 102 and 114.
You're missing the point here. It doesn't matter what the specification is for the transmission under law. All fine and well. Vehicles FAIL. Mechanisms FAIL. The best designed mechanism will never, ever have 100% reliability. If you have a secondary mechanism and you refuse to use it because of what some law says a transmission must be able to do, then you're taking unnecessary risks with yourself and others.

And to others' points about not being taught that way, then quite honestly you were taught wrong.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-15-2014, 09:38 PM
SNUKE's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sydney, Aus
Posts: 2,541
Thanks: 54
Thanked 212 Times in 177 Posts
Rep Power: 5169
SNUKE has a reputation beyond reputeSNUKE has a reputation beyond reputeSNUKE has a reputation beyond reputeSNUKE has a reputation beyond reputeSNUKE has a reputation beyond reputeSNUKE has a reputation beyond reputeSNUKE has a reputation beyond reputeSNUKE has a reputation beyond reputeSNUKE has a reputation beyond reputeSNUKE has a reputation beyond reputeSNUKE has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
I've even been known to drive faster than the posted speed limit. I'll bet that a least a few people who use the parking brake religiously have also exceeded the speed limit on occasion. We all pick and choose to what extent we want to be safe. No need to be pointing fingers at those that don't choose the same as you. ---
I have to own up as a safety hypocrite. I usually sit 3kmh over the speed limit, and will do a damn site if more than that if overtaking.
__________________

__________________
I'm just want it for the "shorter headlamps".

MY14 GC Limited, 3.0 CRD, Lux II, Granite Crystal, 18" Wheels, Tubular Side Steps.
Could I get my avatar much larger?
Ordered: July 7 2013 Delivered Nov 25th
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 02-15-2014, 10:22 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Tulsa area
Posts: 175
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 2002
Rexlion has a reputation beyond reputeRexlion has a reputation beyond reputeRexlion has a reputation beyond reputeRexlion has a reputation beyond reputeRexlion has a reputation beyond reputeRexlion has a reputation beyond reputeRexlion has a reputation beyond reputeRexlion has a reputation beyond reputeRexlion has a reputation beyond reputeRexlion has a reputation beyond reputeRexlion has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett View Post
What is good practice and what is the law are two different things. The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard in the US is clear: if the transmission has a PARK position, it must be able to keep the vehicle from moving more than 150mm (about 6 inches) on a 10% incline.

Years ago the parking brake on the Pontiac Fiero was subject to a recall because they were failing but it only affected manual transmissioned cars because in a automatic PARK was considered enough.

CJF has been playing fast and loose with the FMVSS relating to automagic transmission positions anyway see 571 Standard No. 102 and 114.
Exactly on point. I suspect that the lawyer for the defendant vehicle owner (in the case Peter K cited) might have won for his client if this evidence had been introduced. The stuff in the owner's manuals is CYA language added at the behest of the mfr's lawyers to knock some of the mfr's liability off, and in Peter K's case they succeeded. This despite the failure of the device they built.

I do use the E-brake when I park on an incline that is sufficient to load up the pawl. When the parking spot is reasonably level I don't. I think each person should be able to make up his or her own mind. What I basically was saying in my previous post was that reasonable minds can differ on the need to apply this brake religiously. Some of the posters have stated that anyone who does not use the brake religiously is "stupid", and that their position is the only reasonable position. This position by its very nature places them as the unreasonable, inflexible, intolerant ones.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 02-15-2014, 10:39 PM
SW03ES's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Posts: 1,739
Thanks: 14
Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 1303317
SW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexlion View Post
Some of the posters have stated that anyone who does not use the brake religiously is "stupid",
That's 100% what I think. Such a simple way to make sure that you, your family, and those around you are safe I think it's stupid and irresponsible to refuse to do such a simple thing in the presence of such overwhelming evidence that shows it's necessary.

Call me "intolerant" if you want. If your car rolls away and kills someone you're going to wish you had listened to me. I'm not being dramatic either...just read the experiences of some in this thread. All avoided by using the parking brake...including a death.
__________________
~Steve~
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland V6 4X4. Maximum Steel w/ Vesuvio Jeep Brown/Indigo Blue. Advanced Tech Pkg.
2013 Lexus GS350 AWD, Liquid Platinum w/ Flaxen. Luxury & Cold Weather Pkg
Previous Jeep: 2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo X w/Nav, QT1 & Trailer Tow
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 02-16-2014, 12:11 AM
GoHerd's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hurricane, WV
Posts: 50
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 414
GoHerd is on a distinguished road
Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

There is an awful lot of self righteousness going on here and I really don't care, except those who would suggest that I would be negligent in protecting my children, or compare it to not buckling them in. Ridiculous.

Yes, I do almost always use the parking brake even on level surfaces, and my English wife, who learned to drive on nothing but manual transmissions, was taught to use it.

We were not. Not in driver's education or even with the state police, who back when I was tested, were the ones who oversaw the driving tests. But I've used them because half of my cars were manual and because I'm generally pretty obsessive, especially with the vehicles.

Don't judge me because I may not have used the parking brake the other morning - for the paltry incline it was parked on, bottom line is the Jeep should not have rolled. Absolutely not. It's either a failure or an engineering defect. It's not safe. If that is acceptable operation, then that should be identified and absolutely emphasized during vehicle delivery.

You think the dealers use the parking brake all the time in the showroom?

I've owned more than more than a dozen vehicles, only one of them used, and have never, ever had one pull a stunt like this, parking brake notwithstanding. Even a manual transmission left in reverse without the brake engaged would not have moved so easily.

Consider it was not bumped and did not do it immediately. It sat for several minutes before it had moved.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 02-16-2014, 12:35 AM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 448
Thanks: 0
Thanked 45 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 4981
Peter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond reputePeter_K has a reputation beyond repute
Again, it does not matter whether this is an acceptable operation or not. Not in the slightest. Any vehicle can suffer an unintended failure of the transmission to hold it from moving. Any vehicle. They aren't designed to fail, but it can and will happen. That's why you have a parking brake. Use it. Stop thinking backup systems like that are just for show--they have a purpose and a meaning to them.

The simple fact is that, if everything you said is exactly as it was (no reason to doubt you), then your vehicle suffered from a failure to either engage the parking pawl in the transmission, or it slipped out. That is obviously not intentional and is a problem. However, your failure to use the parking brake as intended compounded the problem. Had you used it, you wouldn't be "fearing for your children" or claiming the vehicle tried to kill you. This issue was twofold: 1) Something broke. 2) You were not using the system designed to protect you if that something broke.

Sympathies for you in reference to the part that broke. Shame on you for not protecting yourself and others from the consequence of said thing breaking.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 02-16-2014, 12:50 AM
GoHerd's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hurricane, WV
Posts: 50
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 414
GoHerd is on a distinguished road
Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Please read my original post, which started this thread.

My point being, it shouldn't do that, and some posters have suggested that it's inherent in its design. I asked if anybody else had had this problem.

I contacted the dealer on Friday and they were shocked. They were going to see what they could find out and get back with me. I missed their call in a meeting and will follow up Monday.

Bottom line -- it's not something that should happen. Anybody remember the Audis that jumped out of park in the 1980s? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that why do you think we have the shift lock now?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
Again, it does not matter whether this is an acceptable operation or not. Not in the slightest. Any vehicle can suffer an unintended failure of the transmission to hold it from moving. Any vehicle. They aren't designed to fail, but it can and will happen. That's why you have a parking brake. Use it. Stop thinking backup systems like that are just for show--they have a purpose and a meaning to them.

The simple fact is that, if everything you said is exactly as it was (no reason to doubt you), then your vehicle suffered from a failure to either engage the parking pawl in the transmission, or it slipped out. That is obviously not intentional and is a problem. However, your failure to use the parking brake as intended compounded the problem. Had you used it, you wouldn't be "fearing for your children" or claiming the vehicle tried to kill you. This issue was twofold: 1) Something broke. 2) You were not using the system designed to protect you if that something broke.

Sympathies for you in reference to the part that broke. Shame on you for not protecting yourself and others from the consequence of said thing breaking.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 02-16-2014, 01:02 AM
jgc4ever's Avatar
Senior Member
My Jeep: 2012 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,178
Thanks: 0
Thanked 76 Times in 67 Posts
Rep Power: 1160187
jgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

There was a similar problem with the 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee of which I had one. A recall by DaimlerChrysler for 1.6 million vehicles was issued.

Recall ID # 2959 - POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:LEVER AND LINKAGE:FLOOR SHIFT Hide DetailsRecall Date FEB 15, 2002 Component POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:LEVER AND LINKAGE:FLOOR SHIFT Model Affected Grand Cherokee Potential Units Affected 1620000
Recall Date:
FEB 15, 2002
Model Affected:
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Summary:
ON CERTAIN SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES, IF A DRIVER HAS NOT PLACED THE SHIFTER LEVER FULLY INTO THE "PARK" POSITION AND LEAVES THE VEHICLE RUNNING, THE VEHICLE MAY UNEXPECTEDLY MOVE REARWARD AFTER SEEMING TO BE STABLE.
Consequences:
INADVERTENT MOVEMENT OF THE VEHICLE COULD RESULT IN A CRASH.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL INSTALL A SECONDARY DETENT SYSTEM TO THE FLOOR SHIFTER ASSEMBLY. DAIMLERCHRYSLER SENT INTERIM NOTICES TO OWNERS CONCERNING THIS PROBLEM ON MARCH 22, 2002. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN SEPTEMBER 23, 2002. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT DAIMLERCHRYSLER AT 1-800-853-1403.
Potential Units Affected:
1620000
Notes:
DAIMLERCHRYSLER CORPORATION



Read more: 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee Recalls & Problems - Motor Trend Magazine
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 02-16-2014, 08:41 AM
SW03ES's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Posts: 1,739
Thanks: 14
Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 1303317
SW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
Again, it does not matter whether this is an acceptable operation or not. Not in the slightest. Any vehicle can suffer an unintended failure of the transmission to hold it from moving. Any vehicle. They aren't designed to fail, but it can and will happen. That's why you have a parking brake. Use it. Stop thinking backup systems like that are just for show--they have a purpose and a meaning to them.
We're wasting our energy. People just aren't willing to take any personal responsibility for things that happen to them...it's always someone else's failure, something else's fault. When shown how clearly it's written in the manual, the response is it should have been even more clear, more spoon fed to them. I mean...there are three paragraphs one that starts with "WARNING!"...not clear enough. The mere mention that a simple personal action can remove them from the risk of these things happening is considered heresy. Others should be protecting them from that risk.

It's just the American way unfortunately. What? The coffee is hot?!? I'll sue...and win. Sad.
__________________
~Steve~
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland V6 4X4. Maximum Steel w/ Vesuvio Jeep Brown/Indigo Blue. Advanced Tech Pkg.
2013 Lexus GS350 AWD, Liquid Platinum w/ Flaxen. Luxury & Cold Weather Pkg
Previous Jeep: 2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo X w/Nav, QT1 & Trailer Tow
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 02-16-2014, 09:04 AM
padgett's Avatar
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orlando
Posts: 1,496
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 80060
padgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Can't say what people should or should not do. Can say that if there is an occasional failure it must be fixed if under warranty or service contract. Can also say that if it happens to several people we are dealing with a potential design defect and Something Must Be Done.

Personally have seen several instances where FBW and/or failure for the engine to turn off when commanded could have created an incident. Can also ay the '14 I drove did not seem very positive in selecting park but by the owner's manual if the engine turned off, you have a good reason to think it is in Park.
__________________
Web home. Notary Sojac Y'all
One of these is a diesel:
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 02-16-2014, 09:13 AM
SW03ES's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Posts: 1,739
Thanks: 14
Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 1303317
SW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond reputeSW03ES has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett View Post
Can't say what people should or should not do.
The manufacturer of the vehicle can! And they have.

For every reasonable person that is interested in taking responsibility for making themselves safer...it takes 30 days for something to become a habit. If you can make a concentrated effort for 30 days to set the parking brake as part of your parking routine, it will be second nature for the rest of your life and you, your family, your property and those around you will be safer for it. Its just good practice, recommended by every auto manufacturer as I have demonstrated...you will never regret having set that parking brake and as we have seen...you very well may one day regret not having set it.
__________________
~Steve~
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland V6 4X4. Maximum Steel w/ Vesuvio Jeep Brown/Indigo Blue. Advanced Tech Pkg.
2013 Lexus GS350 AWD, Liquid Platinum w/ Flaxen. Luxury & Cold Weather Pkg
Previous Jeep: 2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo X w/Nav, QT1 & Trailer Tow
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 02-16-2014, 09:20 AM
padgett's Avatar
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orlando
Posts: 1,496
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 80060
padgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond reputepadgett has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Holy smacks! My JGC just moved itself out of the driveway

Spoken like a true politician.
__________________

__________________
Web home. Notary Sojac Y'all
One of these is a diesel:
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Mopar in the driveway..... Scottina06 Other Rides 4 05-26-2013 10:13 PM
Jeep is in the driveway! Tonz0Fun23 Grand Cherokee - WK 25 05-20-2011 11:05 PM
600+ HP in my driveway Knightrider03m Other Rides 6 02-16-2011 08:09 PM
New addition to my driveway! XXX007 Other Rides 31 07-16-2009 09:48 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community