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  #133  
Old 11-04-2015, 09:13 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

Look at the sales of the Chrysler HEMI powered vehicles over the last 12 years since it was released in 2003. It powers all of their top selling cars, trucks, and SUV's. Dodge Challengers, Dodge Chargers, Jeep Grand Cherokees, and an all but endless amount of models of the Ram Pickup, Chrysler 300, and Dodge Durango.

In standard form it produces 360 to 395 horsepower, while delivering over 20 MPG highway in full sized, heavy vehicles. In the 6.4 Supercharged version it puts out 707 H.P. In the Dodge Hellcat it is one of the fastest production vehicles on the planet. All at an affordable cost and reliability factor that few if any can match. Much the same can be said about the new Corvette that uses a similar designed engine. It performs at a level at or above European sports cars that cost 4 times as much, and are far less reliable.

These newer model HEMI's have been "modernized" as some like to refer to it as, with MDS as well as Variable Valve Timing, and 4 valve heads. Along with computer activated ignition with 2 plugs per cylinder. All of these engines are very economical to produce in large quantity. They all produce tons of power and torque for most any application one could possibly think of. From grocery getting, to towing thousands of pounds, to all but unmatched high performance driving. And they do it delivering excellent mileage, reliability, and overall economy, with some of the best available warranties in the business.

There is not a currently produced engine they could replace it with for the same cost, that would deliver the performance and economy, along with all but endless reliability, which is proven year after year with their Unlimited Mileage Warranties. To remove the Chrysler HEMI engines from production at this point in time, and replace them with some overly complex, expensive, parts ridden, turbocharged nightmare, would be the absolute dumbest marketing decision ever made since the Volkswagen fiasco. It would rank much the same if Harley Davidson discontinued the V-Twin because it is, "obsolete technology".

There are people who feel their life is behind the times if they don't have the latest thing that rolled off the assembly line 10 minutes ago. Other like myself, and millions more, like well proven technology that has been in production longer than the produce at the local grocery store. I keep my vehicles for very long periods of time. It's nice to know the "modern" one I just purchased in 2015 will most likely be around longer than myself. It will do any job I need done, and give me excellent reliability and mileage doing it. If you're waiting for that kind of performance and reliability to go away in favor of something "more modern", you're going to be waiting a hell of a long time.

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  #134  
Old 11-04-2015, 09:19 PM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

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Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
Discuss???

See what you started


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  #135  
Old 11-04-2015, 10:50 PM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

Lol
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  #136  
Old 11-05-2015, 11:07 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

Noting wrong with the Hemi that a 4 valve DOHC with VVT i&e heads and all auminum (or composite) construction couldn't cure. Oh. Then it wouldn't be a hemi.

ps thought a hemispherical chamber would not support 4 valve heads without impossible rocker angles. Did I miss something ? (Wouldn't be the first time)

pps round valves that is (without lead in the gas, valves do not need to be round). Had this nut theory back in the '70s about a losenge shaped valve with two valve stems....

ppps Have a lifetime Chrysler service contract on my Pentastar. Torque curve is more important to most people than HP.
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  #137  
Old 11-05-2015, 02:21 PM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

What is the expected HP and TQ of the 2.0 Turbo engine?

In a 5000 lb SUV, I dont think it is realistic application. Note I have been driving Turbo Dodges and PT Turbos for the last 30 years.

Nothing wrong with turbos in certain applications, but unless the Grand is going to be neutered and turned into a Minivan SUV to drastically reduce weight, a small displacement 4 cylinder in the hands of soccer moms who do poor maintenance will lead to a lot of warranty and upset customers.

I also dont see a 8 cylinder engine based on the pentastar engine, or so according to insiders at Allpar.

Anyone on this list know what the final output of the PUG 3.6 upgrades will be once DI is used? I can see the 3.6 getting some hair dryers but a small 4 cylinder with a Turbo will have a low take rate unless your selling to low information types who dont consider the whole cost of ownership and trade every few years.
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  #138  
Old 11-06-2015, 12:37 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

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Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
Look, it is a mathematical certainty that I would get it wrong every now and then.



This, quoted above, is the title/question of this thread. BASE ENGINE.

Yes, I hail the virtues of turbo engines and you and others disagree with it, sometimes vehemently. And yes we ended up talking F1 because they run modern turbo engines. And no, they do not get re-manufactured every 200 miles. Quite a lot of parts have to be the same otherwise the team incurs meaningless grid penalties of 60 spots per race.

But back to our story, we are talking a base engine. You didn't buy the base Pentastar engine, you exercised an option. I happen to disagree that this particular V8 should even be an option, because I feel it is obsolete. Others too, think turbos are the breath of evil and will need a USB flash drive to boot them when they fail often. Some weeks ago I compared the Pentastar to existing 2L turbo engines that produce the same or even more torque and similar horsepower. It would be a suitable base engine option: smaller, more efficient (with a variable geometry turbo, DI, etc) but just as powerful version as the current engine offering. It doesn't mean I would choose it either if given a sensible option.



I am not sure which German engine you are referring to but if you refer to 1/2 displacement, the 4.4 L DOHC V8 S63 engine on the BMW M5 has higher hp and lb-ft numbers than the 7.0 L V8 "small" block in the Z06. Straight numbers are not the whole story but at least it is almost an Ecoboost engine less in displacement.
That engine is nice, no doubt, I was referring to the e90 M3 V8 normally aspirated engine (that was in a car that was the same price new in 2008 as a Z06), and even that weighs more, without two turbos and intercoolers. Displacement is often thrown around as important, but why? Wt? no, MPG, nope. Why? Cost? No. It really isn't important, except maybe to say specific output is a sign of how much an engine is "stressed". Engine size, weight, shape, octane requirement, longevity, heat produced, maintenance requirements... these are relevant outcomes of design to a purchaser in my mind.

GM, for one, could make and has made complex engines. But there is too much advantage to the ohv v8 not to keep making it for them and their buyers.

I don't have much knowledge of the newer BMW turbos wrt longevity or performance on the race track, but in general, manufacturers lean toward NA cars for their track mules: AMG SLS, Ferrari 458, Porsche GT3 RS (NOT the 911 turbo - a great car, but not really marketed for track use), even lambos, AM's, Lexus LFA, right?.. But many of those luxury cars stay away from the tracks where modern american sports cars lurk (vipers and vettes). You can guess why.

Don't get me started on the new Z06 with the LT4 SC engine... The worst of both worlds!?
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  #139  
Old 11-06-2015, 04:15 PM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

The new Volvo XC90 comes with a turbocharged and supercharged 2.0 L inline four cylinder engine for all trims, including the hybrid.

Rated at 320 HP, or 400 with electrification.

It's not performance oriented, then again few Volvos are.
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:27 PM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

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Originally Posted by tiri View Post
The new Volvo XC90 comes with a turbocharged and supercharged 2.0 L inline four cylinder engine for all trims, including the hybrid.

Rated at 320 HP, or 400 with electrification.

It's not performance oriented, then again few Volvos are.

Esquire top 4 cars of the year.. MB c63S won with a v8 biturbo. Not that I look to esquire for ANYTHING.

Used to be 320hp was rarefied air, now we laugh at it because it isn't 4xx. It is a silly thing. I like that Volvo... Except the engine ; )
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  #141  
Old 11-06-2015, 11:54 PM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

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Originally Posted by billt View Post
The MDS System can kick in at any time when the vehicle is in motion, and the throttle is closed, or reduced. It's use is not governed by the speed of the vehicle. The only time it is actually "off", is when the engine is cold, and not up to operating temperature. And if you're not running the ZF 8-Speed, that is a big part of the reason your fuel economy is off.

I think the 2015 is 14/20 mpg per EPA, that's about or the same as my 2012 (13/20 iirc). I basically can't believe anyone gets 18 city with a V8 in anything, unless they are late for work every day. But anything is possible... I suppose..........
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  #142  
Old 11-07-2015, 06:29 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

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I basically can't believe anyone gets 18 city with a V8 in anything, unless they are late for work every day.
Retired and don't work. The car has never seen a rush hour, and never will.
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  #143  
Old 11-07-2015, 11:20 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

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Originally Posted by comnjeep View Post
I basically can't believe anyone gets 18 city with a V8 in anything...........
Here ya' go. Granted that only represents 1,440 miles of driving. (I've never reset it since I brought it home). And it dropped a few tenths since I took it shooting out in the desert the other day. I had several miles of slow, hilly, winding roads. But overall for a HEMI, I'm not complaining. It's something anyone can do if you drive conservatively, and use the paddle shifters.



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  #144  
Old 11-07-2015, 11:34 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

I get 17-18 also on my mixed mileage. Highway is where this v8 really does well though, if you keep your speed reasonable mid 20s isn't hard, attribute some of that to the MDS. Fortunately I don't do any city only driving v8s don't do as good there. The mileage on this jeep has been a pleasant surprise I wasn't expecting, only slightly worse than my last sedan.
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