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  #73  
Old 09-29-2015, 08:13 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

Turbos basically take a small displacement engine and make it work harder, in order to put out the power level of a larger displacement, normally aspirated engine. The trade off is more expense and complexity, with much more heat and wear generated in the process. Along with a higher, more expensive repair rate, and a shorter engine life. (The repair / service history of these engines over the years proves this). They usually require a higher octane, more expensive fuel to accomplish this higher power output. Which somewhat negates the economics of them in the first place. (You can purchase a hell of a lot of gasoline for what it costs to replace a pair of turbo's).

The supposed gain is a bit better overall MPG, with the power being "on tap" for only when you require it..... Just like a 5.7 HEMI running only on 4 with the MDS System. The difference is the MDS generates less heat when it's operating, not more like the turbo. With today's modern engine development and technology going into street vehicles, I think turbo's have somewhat outlived their time.

Years back, before MDS they had a place. Today, the current MDS Systems that have proven to work quite reliably, are a far better avenue for today's modern engine development to proceed down. Instead of chasing outdated, more expensive technology that just adds a lot of cost and complexity, without much reward. Especially over the long haul.

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  #74  
Old 09-29-2015, 08:32 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

What
Quote:
Originally Posted by billt View Post
Turbos basically take a small displacement engine and make it work harder, in order to put out the power level of a larger displacement, normally aspirated engine. The trade off is more expense and complexity, with much more heat and wear generated in the process. Along with a higher, more expensive repair rate, and a shorter engine life. (The repair / service history of these engines over the years proves this). They usually require a higher octane, more expensive fuel to accomplish this higher power output. Which somewhat negates the economics of them in the first place. (You can purchase a hell of a lot of gasoline for what it costs to replace a pair of turbo's).
I think you are getting your facts on turbos from the same place that you were purchasing a 5 and 1/4 inch Floppy drive that didn't fit in the UConnect USB port. That is ... from the forgotten history that no longer reflects reality.
Quote:
(You can purchase a hell of a lot of gasoline for what it costs to replace a pair of turbo's).
It's called warranty. And if you don't mess with the stock boost, change your oil and coolant at the prescribed intervals, you will not need a new turbo for the life of the car. And even if you raise the boost, within reason (+2-4 psi), nothing will happen. But you can't convince someone who refuses to use a USB flash drive in his own car, can you ?

The advantages of the turbo don't relate just to more power from smaller displacement. It is also a matter of packaging, aesthetics, lower weight (20-40 lbs if not more) improved driving dynamics (e.g. engine mounted lower in the engine bay and behind the front axle)
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  #75  
Old 09-29-2015, 09:05 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
I think you are getting your facts on turbos from the same place that you were purchasing a 5 and 1/4 inch Floppy drive that didn't fit in the UConnect USB port. That is ... from the forgotten history that no longer reflects reality.
I suggest you tell that to the Ford Eco Boost owners who have had several major issues with them. Some of which were severe enough to require a Federal probe. Their enthusiasm is slightly less than yours..... Which reflects current "reality".

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
It's called warranty.
Which doesn't last forever. And if Chrysler Max Care won't cover their turbo diesel with an unlimited warranty, do you actually expect they will with a gasoline version? Doubtful. In spite of what you may want to believe, a large number of consumers keep their vehicles well beyond the warranty..... When most turbo's fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
The advantages of the turbo don't relate just to more power from smaller displacement. It is also a matter of packaging, aesthetics,....
You buy a turbo for LOOKS?

Your smart ass comments aside, I don't think it would be wise to quit your day job to be either a mechanic, or a comedian.
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  #76  
Old 09-29-2015, 09:22 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

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Originally Posted by billt View Post

You buy a turbo for LOOKS?

Your smart ass comments aside, I don't think it would be wise to quit your day job to be either a mechanic, or a comedian.
Not only for looks but also for the swoooosh psssss sounds.

I am not at all surprised that you cannot link the physical size of the engine with the front end design (hence looks, aesthetics) of a vehicle. Research topic for you: how do Audi and BMW 6 cylinder engines differ in terms of placement in the engine bay, and what are the implications, including from a front end design standpoint.

Also, why were you so eager to go to the dealership and fix their mistakes by reflashing the update on your radio? And you are so concerned with paying out of pocket for your turbos? A bit of a double standard. Yes warranty doesn't last forever. But what if your radio was out of warranty last month? What would you have done? There are lifetime warranty options or extended or aftermarket warranties out there. Standard Drivetrain warranties last longer than bumper to bumper coverage so does that mean you will have to buy a flash drive eventually?
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  #77  
Old 09-29-2015, 09:29 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

Turbochargers fail for most for several well know (except by you) reasons: lack of lubrication, oil contamination, lack of cooling. All things that can be traced back to owners who become complacent with car maintenance as it gets older.
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  #78  
Old 09-29-2015, 09:56 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
Not only for looks but also for the swoooosh psssss sounds.
Excuse me. What was I thinking? I purchased an SUV for comfort, room, and towing ability. Not because I wanted something that sounds like a race car. But then again, I live in reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
I am not at all surprised that you cannot link the physical size of the engine with the front end design (hence looks, aesthetics) of a vehicle.
We're talking about a 2-1/2 ton, high C.G. SUV for Christ's sake. And your worried about 20 pounds sitting too high in the engine bay? Because you think it's going to change the, "handling dynamics"? Are you serious? Your argument goes straight to hell as soon as some housewife opens the hatchback and puts in a sack of groceries, or installs a child car seat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
Also, why were you so eager to go to the dealership and fix their mistakes by reflashing the update on your radio?
Since you seem to be so fixated on this subject, and have such difficulty comprehending the written word, I'll spell it out for you..... Again. Because the software they sent me wouldn't fit..... Just like this guy. Is he, "having trouble with reality" as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlanding View Post
I got the chip in the mail last week. I tried to put it in over the weekend and it didn't fit. Took my GC to the dealer this morning first thing for an oil change. Handed my chip to them and they too said I received the wrong one. They used a flash drive to install it. Didn't take too long at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post
Strange. Someone else reported something similar.........
..................................................

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
But what if your radio was out of warranty last month? What would you have done?
Nothing. I would have left it alone. It in no way effected the operation of the vehicle. I'm not going to pay for something that isn't going to matter one way or the other. It didn't cost me a cent to take it in.... So I did. When a turbo goes south after the warranty, you cannot do the same thing. You're either going to fix it and pay out of pocket, or else trade it in, or sell it for next to nothing.

You're really reaching here. Give it up kid. There is an old saying. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Go back to watching F-1 on TV. You'll get all the "swoooosh psssss sounds" that give you so much wood..... And it won't cost you a dime. Your problem is not learning to quit when your behind.
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  #79  
Old 09-29-2015, 11:50 AM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

If you pay close attention to the so called 'fed probe' of the EcoBoost motors it was an incredibly small cross section of the total sold. And they addressed it with an intercooler redesign.

I bought my Jeep after having 2 Ford F-150's, both with the 3.5l EcoBoost motor. Both of these trucks had over 110k miles when I sold them and both had ZERO problems. Not a single factory recall or warranty claim on either. And this isn't a matter of having good luck, several of my friends can make the same claim. These trucks were driven hard too, both were work trucks regularly towing and being beaten on.

In comparison, I have had my Jeep for 1600 miles and it has been in twice for warranty claims. The 3.5l EcoBoost motor is excellent. I loved having one. Only reason I sold the trucks is I sold my business and don't need one. Heck, I would have bought an Explorer with the same motor but I don't like how they look.

My only issue with Jeep going to a turbo motor isn't the turbo, it's the size of the motor. It needs to be bigger. For the weight of the JGC, I think a 2.7-3.0 would work with a turbo sized to match.
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  #80  
Old 09-29-2015, 01:19 PM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

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Originally Posted by cloudlx View Post
My only issue with Jeep going to a turbo motor isn't the turbo, it's the size of the motor. It needs to be bigger. For the weight of the JGC, I think a 2.7-3.0 would work with a turbo sized to match.
My thoughts are similar. Nothing wrong with going turbo or turbo+supercharger as long as there is a respectable amount of displacement to begin with.

See the latest Volvo XC90. It has a 2.0L engine that is both supercharged and turbocharged. Due to the vehicle's weight, it remains a slow vehicle. I'm convinced that with a slightly larger engine, the performance would increase greatly, and less strain would be placed on the engine.
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  #81  
Old 09-29-2015, 02:43 PM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

Quote:
Originally Posted by billt View Post
Excuse me. What was I thinking? I purchased an SUV for comfort, room, and towing ability. Not because I wanted something that sounds like a race car. But then again, I live in reality.

I should have guessed that you cannot take the sarcasm associated with the turbo spool noises...


We're talking about a 2-1/2 ton, high C.G. SUV for Christ's sake. And your worried about 20 pounds sitting too high in the engine bay? Because you think it's going to change the, "handling dynamics"? Are you serious? Your argument goes straight to hell as soon as some housewife opens the hatchback and puts in a sack of groceries, or installs a child car seat.

I am absolutely serious. I want the weight distribution of any vehicle I drive to be as close to 50-50; and the center of mass as close to the floor of the vehicle as possible. Before you go into comparisons to your favorite TV shows, look up weight differences between the 3.6, 5.7 and 3.0 CRD Grand Cherokees. And maybe even read up automotive press commenting on the driving dynamics and cornering effects of having that big iron block weight down at the front of the car. Admittedly that is more than 20-40 pounds but it sure makes a difference. Because it is not just the engine, it is the sheet metal, the sub-frame, many other considerations related to the crash structure of the vehicle, even the angle of the windshield and the position of the occupants inside the car and the coefficient of drag

How's that Audi vs. BMW research going? Did you find out why Audi's have visibly longer hoods?
I assume you never consider the weight of tires when you buy new tires either. It's ok. I do.
Every 100 lbs in weight savings is about 1% increase in fuel economy, EPA says.


Since you seem to be so fixated on this subject, and have such difficulty comprehending the written word, I'll spell it out for you..... Again. Because the software they sent me wouldn't fit..... Just like this guy. Is he, "having trouble with reality" as well?

Nothing. I would have left it alone. It in no way effected the operation of the vehicle. I'm not going to pay for something that isn't going to matter one way or the other. It didn't cost me a cent to take it in.... So I did. When a turbo goes south after the warranty, you cannot do the same thing. You're either going to fix it and pay out of pocket, or else trade it in, or sell it for next to nothing.


A turbo doesn't go bad by itself in most cases. You stated earlier that it always seems to go bad after the warranty expires. It is the lack of maintenance. I already stated that lack of lubrication, contaminated oil and lack of cooling is what takes out these turbos. That's because most people don't like to change thermostats, water pumps, timing belts and other "wear" items; because people don't flush their radiator and coolant bottles, and all that gunk ends up clogging the ports to the turbo. Or bad maintenance or ill-advised modifications like taking out the filters or flow restrictors inside "pills" "T-fittings" "banjo-bolts" on the oil feed lines.

Most of the failures happen after the warranty expires because that is when it costs more and people no longer have the incentive to take care of the old car and take it to the dealership. And failures happen because people don't read instruction manuals where on page 365 in small print says that drivers shouldn't drive hard turbo cars with a cold engine and drivers shouldn't turn off the engine immediately at the end of a spirited drive


You're really reaching here. Give it up kid. There is an old saying. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Go back to watching F-1 on TV. You'll get all the "swoooosh psssss sounds" that give you so much wood..... And it won't cost you a dime. Your problem is not learning to quit when your behind.
I can't comment on the last paragraph because you are becoming impolite, just like in the other thread.
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  #82  
Old 09-29-2015, 03:59 PM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudlx View Post
My only issue with Jeep going to a turbo motor isn't the turbo, it's the size of the motor. It needs to be bigger. For the weight of the JGC, I think a 2.7-3.0 would work with a turbo sized to match.
I would hazard a guess that when the next generation platform comes along, that's what's going to fill the niche where the 5.7 Hemi currently lives. That's what Ford did with the 2016 Exploder...a 3.xL EcoBoost to handle what their V8 did a few years ago.
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  #83  
Old 09-29-2015, 04:37 PM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_in_PA View Post
I would hazard a guess that when the next generation platform comes along, that's what's going to fill the niche where the 5.7 Hemi currently lives. That's what Ford did with the 2016 Exploder...a 3.xL EcoBoost to handle what their V8 did a few years ago.
Agreed.

I loved my EcoBoost trucks. Best trucks I have ever owned. Really, the only thing I disliked is when I stood on the loud pedal it sounded like a V6. Nothing you can do about that really. That's part of the reason I waited for the right deal on a Hemi. No problem with a V6 but it better have some snails attached to it!

If Jeep came out with a motor like the 3.5l EcoBoost I would gladly give it my consideration.
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  #84  
Old 10-14-2015, 06:44 PM
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Re: How do you feel about a 2.0L TT as the base engine for the 2019 WL Grand Cherokee

One of many threads like it on this site.

Just another dead on the road 2013 EcoBoost that Ford Won't Fix - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans
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