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  #37  
Old 04-10-2012, 01:28 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

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Many car saleman are treated like scum because unfortunately they deserve it! I'm sure you never tried to buy a new car in New York where you might feel differently about car sales professionals!
I have known a LOT of car salespeople both professionally and as a customer, and while there are a lot of bad ones out there, most of them are just people like you and me trying to make a living.

Anyways, even if someone is nasty to you, still doesn't mean you should be nasty to them. Just move along to the next one.
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  #38  
Old 04-10-2012, 02:37 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

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Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
Many car saleman are treated like scum because unfortunately they deserve it! I'm sure you never tried to buy a new car in New York where you might feel differently about car sales professionals!
I cant agree more with you and it happens all over the place and not just New York. They try to prey on every and any type of person they think they can get over on whether its because of age, gender, or knowledge. They routinely blatantly lie about the abilities or make up of their product, try to add on various fees{vin etching, DFA fees, DOD fees, etc, etc}, and honestly could care less about the customers best interests as long as their commission check doesnt bounce. There are few people in this world that I can think of that are as scummy as a New Car salesman and they are Used Car salesman.
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  #39  
Old 04-10-2012, 10:51 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

I'd like to see you spend one month as a car salesman and see what your opinion is after that.

I am not nor have I ever been one, but I have known many through the consulting I did with car dealers in another life. It is a HARD way to earn a living. Just imagine that your livelihood depends on you being able to sell me a product. However...all of the information of how that product is priced and structured is all over the Internet for everyone to see...and I come into your place of work to buy the product...and I hate you without even knowing you...and my goal is to make it so that you make absolutely nothing by selling me the product...and once I have accomplished that...I stick my middle finger up at you as I leave. You might work with me for a long time and I'll stab you in the back because some other dealer will sell me the car for $50 cheaper. Instead of simply thanking you for your hard work and apologizing that we couldn't make the deal happen, I'll call you a crook and a slimeball for trying to "screw me" by not automatically offering me the absolute lowest price possible for the car. On top of that, if you don't hit your quotas, and you don't try and make me buy the BS paint sealant or whatever, then you're going to get screamed at by your sales manager.

And...at the end of the month when you look at the hours you've worked, which are a lot of evenings, weekends & holidays when you'd like to be enjoying your family, you'll be surprised to see you didn't make much more per hour than minimum wage. If even that in a slow month.

I don't think you would last very long, and tell me you would be more worried about a customer's well being than getting a paltry commission check (which might be less than $100 per unit depending on how deeply it had to be discounted) and you have GOT to have that check to keep the power turned on at home. If you say you would be...you're lying.

They add things to pad profit because they need profit to survive. Anyways the salespeople don't do that, the dealerships do. If the customer's goal is to leave me no profit...I don't really have much of a choice but to try and hide profit do I?

Its hard to care about a customer's best interests when they don't care about yours. Unfortunately its a circular issue, but the industry just sucks all the way around.
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  #40  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:22 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

Should you mention the tread lightly 1% below invoice pricing if you don't get to that price? For $60 it seems like a good last resort.
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  #41  
Old 04-11-2012, 12:39 AM
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Re: How to negotiate

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
I'd like to see you spend one month as a car salesman and see what your opinion is after that.

I am not nor have I ever been one, but I have known many through the consulting I did with car dealers in another life. It is a HARD way to earn a living. Just imagine that your livelihood depends on you being able to sell me a product. However...all of the information of how that product is priced and structured is all over the Internet for everyone to see...and I come into your place of work to buy the product...and I hate you without even knowing you...and my goal is to make it so that you make absolutely nothing by selling me the product...and once I have accomplished that...I stick my middle finger up at you as I leave. You might work with me for a long time and I'll stab you in the back because some other dealer will sell me the car for $50 cheaper. Instead of simply thanking you for your hard work and apologizing that we couldn't make the deal happen, I'll call you a crook and a slimeball for trying to "screw me" by not automatically offering me the absolute lowest price possible for the car. On top of that, if you don't hit your quotas, and you don't try and make me buy the BS paint sealant or whatever, then you're going to get screamed at by your sales manager.

And...at the end of the month when you look at the hours you've worked, which are a lot of evenings, weekends & holidays when you'd like to be enjoying your family, you'll be surprised to see you didn't make much more per hour than minimum wage. If even that in a slow month.

I don't think you would last very long, and tell me you would be more worried about a customer's well being than getting a paltry commission check (which might be less than $100 per unit depending on how deeply it had to be discounted) and you have GOT to have that check to keep the power turned on at home. If you say you would be...you're lying.

They add things to pad profit because they need profit to survive. Anyways the salespeople don't do that, the dealerships do. If the customer's goal is to leave me no profit...I don't really have much of a choice but to try and hide profit do I?

Its hard to care about a customer's best interests when they don't care about yours. Unfortunately its a circular issue, but the industry just sucks all the way around.
I might become a site supporter just to thank you for this post. I was a car salesman in TN just before coming to Korea. Keeping yourself out of the "bucket" is like playing darts with a moving board while balanced on a medicine ball over flowing lava.
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  #42  
Old 04-11-2012, 08:53 AM
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Re: How to negotiate

No need to thank me...tough way to earn a living.
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  #43  
Old 04-11-2012, 09:24 AM
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Re: How to negotiate

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
I'd like to see you spend one month as a car salesman and see what your opinion is after that.

I am not nor have I ever been one, but I have known many through the consulting I did with car dealers in another life. It is a HARD way to earn a living. Just imagine that your livelihood depends on you being able to sell me a product. However...all of the information of how that product is priced and structured is all over the Internet for everyone to see...and I come into your place of work to buy the product...and I hate you without even knowing you...and my goal is to make it so that you make absolutely nothing by selling me the product...and once I have accomplished that...I stick my middle finger up at you as I leave. You might work with me for a long time and I'll stab you in the back because some other dealer will sell me the car for $50 cheaper. Instead of simply thanking you for your hard work and apologizing that we couldn't make the deal happen, I'll call you a crook and a slimeball for trying to "screw me" by not automatically offering me the absolute lowest price possible for the car. On top of that, if you don't hit your quotas, and you don't try and make me buy the BS paint sealant or whatever, then you're going to get screamed at by your sales manager.

And...at the end of the month when you look at the hours you've worked, which are a lot of evenings, weekends & holidays when you'd like to be enjoying your family, you'll be surprised to see you didn't make much more per hour than minimum wage. If even that in a slow month.

I don't think you would last very long, and tell me you would be more worried about a customer's well being than getting a paltry commission check (which might be less than $100 per unit depending on how deeply it had to be discounted) and you have GOT to have that check to keep the power turned on at home. If you say you would be...you're lying.

They add things to pad profit because they need profit to survive. Anyways the salespeople don't do that, the dealerships do. If the customer's goal is to leave me no profit...I don't really have much of a choice but to try and hide profit do I?

Its hard to care about a customer's best interests when they don't care about yours. Unfortunately its a circular issue, but the industry just sucks all the way around.
I don't tell people how to earn a living, I'm too busy trying to pay my own way just like everybody else! Lets all have a collective cry for all the lyin, cheatin, low life scum new & used car salesmen out there who's only mission in life is to separate you from as much as your money as possible, any way they can! All for a product that most people all need to exist in this world! I don't think so!!!!
I need to feel bad because I negotiated a great deal for myself that left very little profit for the dealer, and a small commision for the salesman? NOT!!
And if I can get anything $50.00 cheaper why wouldn't I?????????????? Isn't that how the business world works. Think about it??
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  #44  
Old 04-11-2012, 10:08 AM
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Re: How to negotiate

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Originally Posted by S.O.T.I. View Post
I might become a site supporter just to thank you for this post. I was a car salesman in TN just before coming to Korea. Keeping yourself out of the "bucket" is like playing darts with a moving board while balanced on a medicine ball over flowing lava.
Nobody put a gun to anyones head and said you had to be a car salesman to provide for your family and honestly most people with a shred of a moral dignity should find other means of employment. I also did not say EVERY salesman but most are the biggest scumbags in the world. THE END
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  #45  
Old 04-11-2012, 02:29 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

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Nobody put a gun to anyones head and said you had to be a car salesman to provide for your family and honestly most people with a shred of a moral dignity should find other means of employment. I also did not say EVERY salesman but most are the biggest scumbags in the world. THE END
Ignorant, ignorant, ignorant.

Do you think these people set out for their dream career as a car salesman? Do you think perhaps circumstances drove them in that direction? In case you haven't noticed...the job market out there isn't the greatest. I've met a lot of car salespeople who lost higher paying jobs in sales, etc.

The biggest scumbags in the world? Really? IMHO posting something like that makes you the "biggest scumbag in the world".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor
I need to feel bad because I negotiated a great deal for myself that left very little profit for the dealer, and a small commision for the salesman? NOT!!
And if I can get anything $50.00 cheaper why wouldn't I?????????????? Isn't that how the business world works. Think about it??
Not at all, as long as you conducted yourself in a professional manner and treated the salesperson with the kindness and respect they deserve as a fellow human being. I got a great deal on my Grand Cherokee, nothing to be ashamed of.

As to why you shouldn't get something $50 cheaper, if I have been working with a person and I have expended a great deal of their time...I give them an opportunity to keep my business before I just dump them. If they can't match what I have, I'd let them keep the business for $50 on a $35k+ transaction. For me that $50 is meaningless, for them its an opportunity to turn their work into money for them and their family. If you've never been in sales you don't understand.

You do not have to be ruthless and disrespectful to those you do business with in order to be successful in a business transaction. You guys are behaving exactly the way you're accusing car salesmen of behaving. Its okay for you, but not for them? Why? That way of conducting yourself is creating these negative experiences you're having. Why have I not had these negative experiences? I bet I've paid less for my cars than you have as well. I've met scummy car salesmen...and I just thank them for their time and move on until I find one I want to do business with.
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  #46  
Old 04-11-2012, 02:49 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
Ignorant, ignorant, ignorant.

Do you think these people set out for their dream career as a car salesman? Do you think perhaps circumstances drove them in that direction? In case you haven't noticed...the job market out there isn't the greatest.

The biggest scumbags in the world? Really? IMHO posting something like that makes you the "biggest scumbag in the world".



Not at all, as long as you conducted yourself in a professional manner and treated the salesperson with the kindness and respect they deserve as a fellow human being. I got a great deal on my Grand Cherokee, nothing to be ashamed of.

As to why you shouldn't get something $50 cheaper, if I have been working with a person and I have expended a great deal of their time...I give them an opportunity to keep my business before I just dump them. If they can't match what I have, I'd let them keep the business for $50 on a $35k+ transaction. For me that $50 is meaningless, for them its an opportunity to turn their work into money for them and their family.

You do not have to be ruthless and disrespectful to those you do business with in order to be successful in a business transaction. You guys are behaving exactly the way you're accusing car salesmen of behaving. Its okay for you, but not for them? Why?
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you by new cars in Fantasyland USA?

It is my right to negotiate and pay for whatever the best deal I can find may be.

Is it not?

Along the way I've been lied too, berated, deceived, and generally treated like an idiot, (which by the way I am not!) all by local car sales professionals, who's only mission in life is to separate me from as much of my money as they possibly can with no regard to how they accomplish this! Respect in life, business, or anything else has to be earned. How I treat a salesman is directly related to how they treat me.

If your giving away $50.00 bills because they mean nothing to you......... send one my way.............. Thanks I'll be waiting for one!
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:03 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

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WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you by new cars in Fantasyland USA?
LOL, not at all. I can tell you that when you change your outlook your experiences are very different.

Quote:
It is my right to negotiate and pay for whatever the best deal I can find may be.
Sure it is, but its not your right to be a total dick to people and call them derogatory names, regardless of how they may act towards you. Wasn't how I was raised, obviously you were raised to behave differently.

Quote:
Along the way I've been lied too, berated, deceived, and generally treated like an idiot, (which by the way I am not!) all by local car sales professionals, who's only mission in life is to separate me from as much of my money as they possibly can with no regard to how they accomplish this! Respect in life, business, or anything else has to be earned. How I treat a salesman is directly related to how they treat me.
If you automatically walk into a car dealership believing all the salespeople are the "biggest scumbags on earth" and with your goal being to separate them from as much of their money as possible (which you have admitted here is your goal) with no regard as to how you accomplish that...do you think maybe the salespeople are treating you the way you are treating them?

All I can tell you is car salespeople don't treat me that way. I know what a fair price is, and what I want to pay, and when a dealer that I like will do that price...I buy the god damn car. I don't beat people up for the last $5.

Quote:
If your giving away $50.00 bills because they mean nothing to you.........
I'm not saying $50 means nothing to me, I'm saying that I keep my perspective in a business transaction and recognize that good service is worth a premium. I would not just leave a salesman holding his dick in his hand after a deal has already been worked out over $50, no.

You're the absolute poster child for what I'm talking about, the belligerent, entitled customer with a HUGE chip on his shoulder who doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. You're as much a part of the problem here as any salesman.
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  #48  
Old 04-11-2012, 03:28 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
LOL, not at all. I can tell you that when you change your outlook your experiences are very different.



Sure it is, but its not your right to be a total dick to people and call them derogatory names, regardless of how they may act towards you. Wasn't how I was raised, obviously you were raised to behave differently.

I haven't called anyone a derogatory name maybe you should reread my posts.



If you automatically walk into a car dealership believing all the salespeople are the "biggest scumbags on earth" and with your goal being to separate them from as much of their money as possible (which you have admitted here is your goal) with no regard as to how you accomplish that...do you think maybe the salespeople are treating you the way you are treating them?

Their Money?? Isn't it my money as I'm the purchaser of the product?

All I can tell you is car salespeople don't treat me that way. I know what a fair price is, and what I want to pay, and when a dealer that I like will do that price...I buy the god damn car. I don't beat people up for the last $5.



I'm not saying $50 means nothing to me, I'm saying that I keep my perspective in a business transaction and recognize that good service is worth a premium. I would not just leave a salesman holding his dick in his hand after a deal has already been worked out over $50, no.

You're the absolute poster child for what I'm talking about, the belligerent, entitled customer with a HUGE chip on his shoulder who doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. You're as much a part of the problem here as any salesman.
What are you talking about? An informed, intellegent consumer, who can't be lied too, bullied, or pressured, into a bad deal with tons of dealer profit? Yea that would be me!

Seems like I hit a nerve hear!
Are you sure your not a car salesman?? You sure sound like one.

Maybe a former car salesman?? Didn't work out?
I'm still waitin on that $50.00 you don't mind parting with!
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