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  #49  
Old 04-11-2012, 03:38 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

Seems like this guy just travels from thread to thread trying to save the day for all the pooor poor salesmen out there
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  #50  
Old 04-11-2012, 05:52 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

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Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
What are you talking about? An informed, intellegent consumer, who can't be lied too, bullied, or pressured, into a bad deal with tons of dealer profit?
LOL, actually read what I say. You don't have to overpay, just be fair. I got an excellent deal on my JGC, and was fair. It was a very pleasant transaction.

Quote:
Are you sure your not a car salesman?? You sure sound like one.
Like I said before, I have never been a car salesman. I just have a lot of experience with car salesmen since I used to consult with car dealerships and it frustrates me to see people saying such ignorant things when they really have no idea what they're talking about.

You guys can laugh at me all you want, doesn't bother me. If suddenly I'm the joke for suggesting the idea that you should treat others like you want to be treated, not judge others until you've walked a mile in their shoes, and approach situations with an open mind and positive attitude...thats a problem with you...not with me.
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  #51  
Old 04-11-2012, 07:33 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

Commissions were based on the "payable gross" to the dealership and were applied in three tiers. If the payable gross was from $0 to $749, our commission was 20 percent of the profit, from $750 to $1249 the commission was 25 percent of the profit. Above $1250 the commission was 30 percent of the profit. In other words, the higher the profit for the dealership, the higher the commission I would earn. Obviously, this motivated salespeople to build profit into the deal so they could hit that magic mark and get into the 30 percent bracket.
-----------
The next step in my training involved the use of the "4-square work sheet." Michael told me the 4-square was my friend, it was the salesman's tool for getting "maximum gross profit." As the name implies, the sheet is divided into four sections. When you have a prospect "in the box" (in the sales cubicle) you pull out a 4-square and go to work.
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The final box on the 4-square was for the trade-in. This was where the most profit could be made. Buyers are so eager to get out of their old car and into a new one, they overlook the true value of the trade-in. The dealership is well aware of this weakness and exploits it.
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The opening numbers were now in place on the 4-square. At a glance, Michael said, you could see the significant numbers of this deal — purchase price of the car, trade-in, down payment and the monthly payments. As you negotiated you could move from box to box, making progress as you went. It allowed you to sell a car in different ways. For example, if the customer was determined to get full value for his trade-in, you could take extra profit elsewhere — in the purchase price or maybe even in financing.
------------
While Michael was training me, he didn't ever say, "Here's how to cheat the customer," or, "This is how we inflate the prices." In fact, he stressed that I was supposed to treat customers with respect to build a strong C.S.I. (Customer Satisfaction Index). But manipulation and overpricing was inherent in everything he said. The reason for this was simple — without overpricing we couldn't make a living. What we were selling was profit. Or, as Michael put it, "This is money for you — money for your family."
------------
At times Michael became very excited as he thought of new things to teach me. At one point he said, "Oh! This is a good one! This is how you steal the trade-in." He looked around quickly to make sure no one overheard him. "When you're getting the numbers from the desk, they'll ask if the customer has a trade-in. Say it's a '95 Ford Taurus. And say you took it to the used car manager and he evaluated it and said he would pay four grand for it. If you can get the trade for only three, that's a grand extra in profit.
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"So what you do is this," Michael pretended to pick up the phone again, "you ask the desk, 'What did we get for the last three Tauruses at auction?' Then they'll give you some figures — they'll say, $1,923, $2,197 and $1,309. You don't have to say anything to the customer. But he sees you writing this down! And he's going, 'Holy crap! I thought my trade was worth $6,000.' Now it's easy to get it for $3,000. That's a grand extra in profit. And it's front-end money too!" (I later learned that front-end money was what our commissions were based on. Back-end money was made on interest, holdbacks and other elements of the deal.)
-----------
A friend came up to me on the lot one day and said in a confidential voice, "Want to see a bomber?" He unfolded the voucher and showed me the yellow slip: $1,274. "Is that unreal or what? What a bomber." If his commission was $1,274 (30 percent of the dealership's profit) the dealership made $4,242. That's a lot of profit to make on a $25,000 car — about 16 percent.
-----------


...... so on, so on.... more in here: http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/co...salesman.phtml
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  #52  
Old 04-11-2012, 07:41 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

An update in 2009: http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/co...for-2009.phtml
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:46 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
LOL, actually read what I say. You don't have to overpay, just be fair. I got an excellent deal on my JGC, and was fair. It was a very pleasant transaction.

Well good for you! Unfortunately my new car buying experiences have been shall we say less than fair, honorable, or pleasant!


Like I said before, I have never been a car salesman. I just have a lot of experience with car salesmen since I used to consult with car dealerships and it frustrates me to see people saying such ignorant things when they really have no idea what they're talking about.

Really?
Well much to the dismay for many of the sales scum I've dealt with; I know exactly what I'm taking about, and can't be lied to, cheated, or scammed!

You guys can laugh at me all you want, doesn't bother me. If suddenly I'm the joke for suggesting the idea that you should treat others like you want to be treated, not judge others until you've walked a mile in their shoes, and approach situations with an open mind and positive attitude...thats a problem with you...not with me.
What is it that you do sell? Because no one here is buying your brand of bulls**t!

Did you read the post by 70th above. **READ IT AGAIN!** Thats the unpleasant truth about sales scum professionals!

Still waitin on that $50.00 bill you don't need!

You can send it anytime...... I'm ready

Thanks for diagnosing "my problems" with lying scum saleman!

I thought I had a handle on that! Thank god for you and your thoughtful insight!
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:13 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

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Old 04-11-2012, 10:40 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

I've read the article above before, its a very good article and outlines a lot of what is wrong with the profession as a whole, thats a lot of what I was paid by dealerships to teach salespeople NOT to do. You have to consider the source, Edmunds who's existence is predicated on the public's distrust of car salesmen. Read this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6071214AAjOOhv

This is the bottom line, from the article:

Quote:
But manipulation and overpricing was inherent in everything he said. The reason for this was simple — without overpricing we couldn't make a living. What we were selling was profit. Or, as Michael put it, "This is money for you — money for your family."
Whether its right or wrong, this is the way that it is. One salesman on a dealership floor can't change the realities of his entire industry. Without building profit into his deals...he CANNOT make a living. Blame the industry, not him is all I am saying. That doesn't mean you should overpay, you should negotiate a fair and reasonable price given your location and the market conditions of the time. But you should never begrudge someone their right to make a living.

An educated consumer is unaffected by any of these tactics...and I can say no such tactics have ever even been attempted on me when buying a car.

Quote:
Well good for you! Unfortunately my new car buying experiences have been shall we say less than fair, honorable, or pleasant!
Well if you act the way you've acted towards me here...I can see why. I have never purchased a car in a situation that I felt was unfair, dishonorable, and I've never left a car dealership feeling anything but satisfied. I took the time to find the right dealership and salesperson to buy from, negotiated what was a fair price, and left very satisfied. Hell, the last 4 cars I've bought I never even met the salesperson until I went in to pick up the car. The Lexus I negotiated the deal on my Blackberry on the beach in Ocean City.

Like I said, laugh all you want. I stand by everything I've said. I was brought up to conduct myself with a certain level of decorum and professionalism in my dealings...obviously you were not. If its somehow funny that I give a shit about the well being of others...laugh it up. I'm the better person for it.
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  #56  
Old 04-12-2012, 06:00 AM
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Re: How to negotiate

Edmunds is a great web site. We are fortunate it exists so we can all be educated and save.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:07 AM
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Re: How to negotiate

I agree 100%, but it doesn't mean they don't have bias. Every for profit enterprise is biased towards what makes them profit. Edmunds doesn't exist for our benefit...it exists to make money.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:29 AM
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Re: How to negotiate

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
I've read the article above before, its a very good article and outlines a lot of what is wrong with the profession as a whole, thats a lot of what I was paid by dealerships to teach salespeople NOT to do. You have to consider the source, Edmunds who's existence is predicated on the public's distrust of car salesmen. Read this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6071214AAjOOhv

This is the bottom line, from the article:

Okay now we get the ugly truth (for you that is). Your not a salesman YOU TEACH salesmen what to do. No wonder you always post as the spin master always trying to defend the tactics of sales scum professionals and unscrupulous dealers everywhere. All makes sense now!

Whether its right or wrong, this is the way that it is. One salesman on a dealership floor can't change the realities of his entire industry. Without building profit into his deals...he CANNOT make a living. Blame the industry, not him is all I am saying. That doesn't mean you should overpay, you should negotiate a fair and reasonable price given your location and the market conditions of the time. But you should never begrudge someone their right to make a living.

An educated consumer is unaffected by any of these tactics...and I can say no such tactics have ever even been attempted on me when buying a car.

Like I said before you must have bought all your new cars in Fantasyland USA.
Or was it in Stepford County Nowhere?? Or maybe you taught them to go easy on you as the chief Bullsh*ter!

Well if you act the way you've acted towards me here...I can see why. I have never purchased a car in a situation that I felt was unfair, dishonorable, and I've never left a car dealership feeling anything but satisfied. I took the time to find the right dealership and salesperson to buy from, negotiated what was a fair price, and left very satisfied. Hell, the last 4 cars I've bought I never even met the salesperson until I went in to pick up the car. The Lexus I negotiated the deal on my Blackberry on the beach in Ocean City.

Now that I know you admit to teaching sales scum professionals on how to sell, profit that is, not a consumer product, I'm a little angry I went so easy on you. Who do you work for? What brands do you teach the sales scum on how to sell GM, Ford, BMW, JEEP???????????????? All of the above, Please tell us all! Or let me guess.... you sell real estate. Right?

Like I said, laugh all you want. I stand by everything I've said. I was brought up to conduct myself with a certain level of decorum and professionalism in my dealings...obviously you were not. If its somehow funny that I give a shit about the well being of others...laugh it up. I'm the better person for it.
Here's laughing at you, now that your dirty little secret has been exposed!

Now please go away, no one is buying your brand of bulls**t......... It smells badly!
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:05 AM
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Re: How to negotiate

LMAO! Its not a secret...I've mentioned it several times in this thread and elsewhere on the site in similar discussions. You just don't read what I've been saying:

Quote:
I have known a LOT of car salespeople both professionally and as a customer
Quote:
I am not nor have I ever been one, but I have known many through the consulting I did with car dealers in another life.
Quote:
Like I said before, I have never been a car salesman. I just have a lot of experience with car salesmen since I used to consult with car dealerships
Quote:
thats a lot of what I was paid by dealerships to teach salespeople NOT to do
I did not train sales techniques, I consulted with dealerships and salespeople about how to retain customers from sales to service and build long term relationships and loyalty. I'm no longer in that business and haven't been for 10 years.

Quote:
Who do you work for?
Myself.

Quote:
What brands do you teach the sales scum on how to sell GM, Ford, BMW, JEEP????????????????
See, again you don't understand how the auto dealership industry works. The brands are meaningless. The dealerships are all independently owned, and nowadays (even more so since I stopped working with them) most dealers are big conglomerates that sell MANY different brands. They franchise to sell specific brands, but the dealership itself is a significant business in its own right. Those big conglomerates were who paid me to come in and design systems that rewarded their repeat customers and helped turn sales customers into service customers (which is where a dealership really makes money). Part of the reason why this has happened is the razor thin profit margins. To really do well...you need more than one store.

That experience showed me how truly screwed up an industry it really is, what contributes to it being so screwed up, and it showed me that a lot of the salespeople are as much victims of the industry's problems as the consumers are. People don't get rich selling cars. Dealerships don't make money selling cars...they make it servicing cars. The sales is almost a sort of loss leader.

Quote:
ike I said before you must have bought all your new cars in Fantasyland USA
LOL, you can believe whatever you want. If you buy cars the way I buy cars there are no tricks, no pressure. You get tricked and pressured because you loose control of the situation. You might think you don't, but if you truly had control of the situation when buying a car you wouldn't feel the way you do about the process. Jeep was $39,200...I paid $32,500. Never even saw it or the salesman until I walked in the door. Lexus was $42k, paid $36,500. Negotiated the deal on my Blackberry on the beach, picked it up the day I got back. Sure before I found the right dealer I spoke to a few that weren't willing to do business the way I wanted to, or quoted me prices with rebates and things I didn't qualify for, I simply thanked them for their time and moved on. No stress, no hours at the dealership, no 4 squares, no profit hiding, no add ons. Perfectly pleasant. Might I have beat another couple hundred bucks out of them...maybe...but who cares?

I mean...you can continue trying to somehow upset me or get me unglued with your ignorant remarks and stupid smilieys all you want, its not going to happen. I *know* what I am talking about, and you just look more and more foolish with every post LOL. Keep it up, I truly look forward to this thread and to see what "comments" you're going to post next.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:22 PM
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Re: How to negotiate

Is there ever room to negotiate a trade in further? I know my offer is way low. Do dealerships ever budge on trade ins? I have a 04 overland in excellent shape inside and out. I'm at 36k for a new overland but I think 35 would be fair price with trade in.
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