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  #25  
Old 12-29-2010, 12:55 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by Mashie View Post
My wife's car is a 2010 Honda CRv. If Gas goes up to $5 a gallon then we will just drive that car more then the WK2 around town. In addition, I office from both my house and an office about 2 miles from my house however I spend most of my time traveling around the country (40+ weeks last year) so my WK2 sits in the garage or at the airport. I am not really concerned with $5/gallon gas right now.
40 wks/year of travel is a lot. I did that pace for 4 years straight earlier in my career...still living off some of the reward program points I amassed! I was the Clooney character in "Up in the Air", except I wasn't firing people for a living.

My calculus on this debate is evolving. Honestly I didn't factor in a spike in gas prices. My thought was bang for the buck compared to what I have driven in the past. The WK2 is a win for me in that context no matter how you slice it.

I work for myself from my home office and my wife runs her business from a dedicated office outside our home. This means that I'm the default transport solution when the kids need rides during the day. I put 20K+ miles on the WJ I'm driving over the last 15 mos. Fortunately, that will go down beginning in April when my daughter gets to solo. Not sure what the net-net will be when we add a 3rd driver. My miles will decrease but I'm sure she'll make up for that with her overhead. Then she goes to college in '12 (w/o taking the WJ), so another change on the trendline, but my son starts driving...

Bottom line to my analysis: Screw it and get what I want and can afford. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
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  #26  
Old 12-29-2010, 01:24 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by rdalcanto View Post
Yes. I look at it as a safety issue. Everything else being equal, a 5,000lb vehicle colliding with a 3,000lb vehicle will win every time. As a surgeon, I have taken care of a lot of motor vehicle accident victims. I recently had a lady in a Suburban that was hit head on by a sedan that crossed the median. Both people in the sedan died at the scene. 4 of the 5 people (including the 3 kids) in the Subruban walked away uninjured. $5 a gallon means more people in smaller cars, which means I'm more likely to walk away when some drunk or teenager hit me.

Excellent post. There is a difference between cost and value.

And Kudos for your follow-up post. There is nothing selfish about wanting to give your family the best chance possible to survive the stupidity of others on the road.
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  #27  
Old 12-29-2010, 01:29 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

Yes. I have a 2010 Jetta that I use to drive to work everyday. The WK2 will be for the weekends. I'm trading in a Lexus GS350 that uses premium gas. The milage sucks on that thing (awesome drive though). I figure I can get regular gas with the WK2 and it will even out.
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  #28  
Old 12-29-2010, 01:30 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

I would still drive what I currently drive
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  #29  
Old 12-29-2010, 01:38 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
You can also look at that another way..... if more people are in small cars, then your odds of being killed or injured in a motor vehicle accident will drop even if you're in a basic midsize sedan. Of course you'll be even more safe in a larger vehicle, but at the same time you'll become part of the problem for the majority of people in the smaller cars on the roads.

I totally understand what you're saying, but it is a bit selfish to think that way. Basically, you're saying that people who can't afford to be in a larger vehicle because of high gas prices are not able to keep themselves in a position to be as safe as you in your larger vehicle. There's something fundamentally wrong with that way of thinking, IMO. I'd expect more critical thinking out of a surgeon.

There's also a valid argument that a smaller and lighter vehicle in the hands of a competent driver will be able to avoid accidents better than a larger, poorer handling vehicle. Braking and handling often come into play when you need to avoid an accident. As much as I like driving midsize SUVs (not fullsize), I have to admit that I change my driving habits when I'm behind the wheel because I know that I don't have the braking/handling ability that I do in my car. I'm only hoping to even out the odds of avoiding an accident, but it's difficult with so many other drivers who have poor defensive driving skills.
We've all heard this tedious and fallacious argument before. Saying that those of us who drive larger and safer vehicles (assuming we drive them in a safe manner) are part of the problem isn't logical or reasonable. That's like saying that those of us who lock our doors are responsible when we deter thieves and they move on to easier pickings. Following that logic, should we all leave our doors unlocked (because some can't afford solid locks) so that everyone has an equal chance of getting robbed? WTF.

Furthermore, that assumes that the person in the heavier (or as you might refer to it, more expensive) vehicle is to blame for the collision, yet further down in your comments you note the number of drivers with poor defensive driving skills. Where's your data to support that assertion? What if it turns out that there really is a socioeconomic correlation to driving skills? What if the people in the less expensive/lighter/smaller cars are plowing into others at a disproportionate rate? I don't have that data but your comments beg this and other questions.

Peace.
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  #30  
Old 12-29-2010, 01:40 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by xmonger View Post
There is nothing selfish about wanting to give your family the best chance possible to survive the stupidity of others on the road.
x2
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  #31  
Old 12-29-2010, 01:41 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
What is all this talk about $5/gallon gas? It's all over the news today. Who is predicting this and where are they getting their information?
The former president of Shell Oil is predicting this. Anyway if your finances are that sensitive to the pump price of gas then buy something more efficient, if not buy whatever the hell you want.

Seriously every forum about trucks or suvs has a thread like this at least once a month. Pump price means nothing since you are already getting gouged through your tax dollars. The only people the pump price should really make a difference for are people who shouldn't be dropping 35-45k on a non-work vehicle anyway. I hate people whining about gas prices when they made the choice to buy something inefficient to begin with. I wouldn't buy an elephant and then complain about the cost to feed it.

Also having a heavier vehicle is worse in a collision. Having more surface area to absorb the force of the collision is what counts. Weight is actually a detriment because it means more kinetic energy is involved, which has to go somewhere, usually through your spine. A well designed small car is fine in a collision and more likely to avoid one altogether, being more agile and having better braking ability.

I drive big, heavy cars and trucks for the luxury not the safety.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:48 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

we pay around 1.7$ per l -> 6.44$ per Gallon the highest price was around 8$. That makes a Hemi to absolute no go for me. Thinking about a 3.6l or waiting for a diesel.
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  #33  
Old 12-29-2010, 02:10 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by Repo503 View Post
Also having a heavier vehicle is worse in a collision. Having more surface area to absorb the force of the collision is what counts. Weight is actually a detriment because it means more kinetic energy is involved, which has to go somewhere, usually through your spine. A well designed small car is fine in a collision and more likely to avoid one altogether, being more agile and having better braking ability.

I drive big, heavy cars and trucks for the luxury not the safety.
Oregon physics.
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  #34  
Old 12-29-2010, 02:10 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by rdalcanto View Post
What you don't realize is that I'm a safe, responsible driver. I don't speed. I don't drive drunk, my cars are well maintained, and I have tires with lots of tread and appropriate compound for the conditions (snow tires for winter). In other words, I am EXTREMELY unlikely to be the cause of an accident. Mean while, everytime I get on the highway, there are reckless drivers weaving in and out of traffic. There are people texting, speeding, driving on snow with bald tires, and driving while intoxicated (I see them all the time at the hospital). So yes, I have no problem putting myself and my family in a heavier, gas guzzling vehicle to protect ourselves from those that don't treat life and health as the fragile gift that it is. I worked hard to make a good living, and am willing to spend a larger percentage of my money in a way that I feel is important. I see the worst of humanity and society all the time - people who throw their life away with poor lifestyle choices, and have the IQ of a brick. Nothing is more tragic than when they take the life of a child, or responsible young parent or loved one. I will not be one of their victims. If you have a problem with that, come spend a few days at work with me and meet some of these people. You will come to see things my way, I promise.
Like I said, I totally understand what you're saying. I'm also a very responsible driver. My vehicles are always in 100% tip-top shape, I don't drive on tires that are even nearly worn out, and I don't drink. And of course I do see plenty of people who drive shitbuckets that are falling apart while they're texting someone while bombed out of their minds. The best way to protect yourself from people like that is to avoid them and drive defensively....because those people aren't just driving small cars. Unfortunately, they're likely to be driving a wide range of vehicles, from small econoboxes to fullsize SUVs and trucks. So while you may help your odds, it's more important to remain aware of the drivers around you and drive defensively than it is to surround yourself in a big vehicle.

Of course you may say that you already drive defensively and having a larger vehicle is just another way to protect yourself. And that's a good point. But at the same time, I've found that anticipating the actions of other drivers is by far the best way to protect yourself out on the road. I've been driving since 1985 and I've only been in one accident (in 1990) ever. It was just a fender bender and it was my fault because I didn't see the other driver in my blind spot. Nobody was injured and the damage was light to both vehicles. Still though, I realize that even the best of drivers may end up in an accident. So instead of surrounding myself and my family in the biggest & heaviest vehicle I can find, I choose to buy a vehicle that suits my needs (in this case a midsize SUV that weighs about 4500 lbs) and rely on my driving skills to keep safe.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:16 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by Repo503 View Post
The former president of Shell Oil is predicting this. Anyway if your finances are that sensitive to the pump price of gas then buy something more efficient, if not buy whatever the hell you want.

Seriously every forum about trucks or suvs has a thread like this at least once a month. Pump price means nothing since you are already getting gouged through your tax dollars. The only people the pump price should really make a difference for are people who shouldn't be dropping 35-45k on a non-work vehicle anyway. I hate people whining about gas prices when they made the choice to buy something inefficient to begin with. I wouldn't buy an elephant and then complain about the cost to feed it.
Whether you want to admit it or not, pump prices have a direct affect on the sales of vehicles in this class. Midsize SUVs always seem to take a hit in sales when gas prices rise more than normal. That's why body-on-frame SUVs are extremely rare these days....most people choose to lean towards smaller unibody SUVs if they want to stick with an SUV at all anymore. And for those who do want to stay with SUVs, well, they tend to choose V6 engines over V8 engines simply to save a little bit of money on gas.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:24 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by Cperez View Post
We've all heard this tedious and fallacious argument before. Saying that those of us who drive larger and safer vehicles (assuming we drive them in a safe manner) are part of the problem isn't logical or reasonable. That's like saying that those of us who lock our doors are responsible when we deter thieves and they move on to easier pickings. Following that logic, should we all leave our doors unlocked (because some can't afford solid locks) so that everyone has an equal chance of getting robbed? WTF.
Wow, talking about apples and oranges. LOL. Not even close to what I was saying. First of all, I drive a midsize SUV, just like most people here. I don't consider it a "large" vehicle, although it is bigger and heavier than the average 4-door sedan. Whenever I'm out on the roads, I see plenty of other SUVs/trucks/vans that are bigger and heavier than my midsize SUV. As far as being "part of the problem", what I'm saying is that people who own large vehicles are "part of the problem" for people who own small vehicles. Of course that is everyone's own personal choice and decision. If it makes you all warm and fuzzy inside to drive a large vehicle, more power to you. In fact, you should consider getting something much larger than a WK2 because it will probably make you feel even more warm and fuzzy inside.

Quote:

Furthermore, that assumes that the person in the heavier (or as you might refer to it, more expensive) vehicle is to blame for the collision, yet further down in your comments you note the number of drivers with poor defensive driving skills. Where's your data to support that assertion? What if it turns out that there really is a socioeconomic correlation to driving skills? What if the people in the less expensive/lighter/smaller cars are plowing into others at a disproportionate rate? I don't have that data but your comments beg this and other questions.

Peace.
I never said that someone in a bigger/heavier vehicle is more likely to blame in a collision. Fault is often shared in collisions in many cases. I did say that there are plenty of people with poor defensive driving skills. I also said that those people can be driving ANY vehicle, large or small. It's not like crappy drivers only drive one type of vehicle. So when that crappy and distracted driver is out on the roads, your best bet is to do your best to avoid him/her in the first place, regardless of the size of his/her vehicle or yours.
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