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  #37  
Old 12-29-2010, 02:28 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by Repo503 View Post

Also having a heavier vehicle is worse in a collision. Having more surface area to absorb the force of the collision is what counts. Weight is actually a detriment because it means more kinetic energy is involved, which has to go somewhere, usually through your spine. A well designed small car is fine in a collision and more likely to avoid one altogether, being more agile and having better braking ability.

I drive big, heavy cars and trucks for the luxury not the safety.
What? I agree that a smaller car is more agile and may have better braking ability, which of course means a better chance of accident avoidance in the first place, but I completely disagree with a heavier vehicle is worse in a collision.

Line up a new Toyota Yaris head-to-head with a new Toyota Sequoia and smash them head-on at 60 MPH. Which vehicle would you rather be in?
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  #38  
Old 12-29-2010, 02:35 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
I've found that anticipating the actions of other drivers is by far the best way to protect yourself out on the road.

Good advice and I'm sure it's followed by many on this board.

When I first took the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) course they drilled the following acronym into my head:

S - Scan
I - Identify
P - Predict
D- Decide
E- Execute

Basically you should profile everything and everyone on the road, brainstorm possible actions that put you in harm's way, and have an escape/damage mitigation plan ready to executed. In essence, when on the road be hyper-aware of everything that could potentially end it all and be prepared to act.
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  #39  
Old 12-29-2010, 02:39 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by xmonger View Post
Good advice and I'm sure it's followed by many on this board.

When I first took the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) course they drilled the following acronym into my head:

S - Scan
I - Identify
P - Predict
D- Decide
E- Execute

Basically you should profile everything and everyone on the road, brainstorm possible actions that put you in harm's way, and have an escape/damage mitigation plan ready to executed. In essence, when on the road be hyper-aware of everything that could potentially end it all and be prepared to act.

Yes, any motorcyclist who has survived on the streets for any real length of time most likely lives by those rules. It's simply a matter of survival.

In fact, when I approach a car stopped at an intersection and the car has dark tinted windows, I'm always even more cautious because I don't know for sure if the drive has seen me coming yet. If I can't see him looking in my direction, how do I know if he's seen me coming? That's just one example of driving defensively.
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  #40  
Old 12-29-2010, 03:18 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by Lingohocken View Post
Oregon physics.
Physics are the same everywhere.

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Whether you want to admit it or not, pump prices have a direct affect on the sales of vehicles in this class. Midsize SUVs always seem to take a hit in sales when gas prices rise more than normal. That's why body-on-frame SUVs are extremely rare these days....most people choose to lean towards smaller unibody SUVs if they want to stick with an SUV at all anymore. And for those who do want to stay with SUVs, well, they tend to choose V6 engines over V8 engines simply to save a little bit of money on gas.
I realize they do, but many peoples reasoning behind getting a larger, more powerful vehicle are flawed in the first place. Remember how the mortgage crises started? People bought what they couldn't afford. I'm simply advocating that people think harder about the financial ramifications of their purchases. If you can't afford the fuel for a new truck you probably couldn't afford the truck in the first place. Just because you could doesn't mean you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
What? I agree that a smaller car is more agile and may have better braking ability, which of course means a better chance of accident avoidance in the first place, but I completely disagree with a heavier vehicle is worse in a collision.

Line up a new Toyota Yaris head-to-head with a new Toyota Sequoia and smash them head-on at 60 MPH. Which vehicle would you rather be in?
This was simply a statement about weight. Of course anybody would rather be in the Sequoia in this senario. I was merely bring to debunk the whole more weight = safer equation. There is so much more involved with creating a safe vehicle. If you were able to crash two sequioas together, but one weighed 500lbs less with the same crash structure and safety systems you would be much better off in the lighter one.
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  #41  
Old 12-29-2010, 03:27 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by Repo503 View Post
Physics are the same everywhere.


I realize they do, but many peoples reasoning behind getting a larger, more powerful vehicle are flawed in the first place. Remember how the mortgage crises started? People bought what they couldn't afford. I'm simply advocating that people think harder about the financial ramifications of their purchases. If you can't afford the fuel for a new truck you probably couldn't afford the truck in the first place. Just because you could doesn't mean you should.



This was simply a statement about weight. Of course anybody would rather be in the Sequoia in this senario. I was merely bring to debunk the whole more weight = safer equation. There is so much more involved with creating a safe vehicle. If you were able to crash two sequioas together, but one weighed 500lbs less with the same crash structure and safety systems you would be much better off in the lighter one.
+rep, i like it when people actually know what they are talking about...not too many people agree with the lighter car is better than a heavier car, and also the fact that, if you can't afford it, don't buy it...
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  #42  
Old 12-29-2010, 03:40 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

It's not so much as the cost of the fuel but the perceived value of your $40K plus vehicle when they fall out of favor when gas goes up. As an example when gas was $4.00 plus per gallon, my neighbor wanted to trade his Surburban for something smaller. The Chevy dealer to him he didn't want the vehicle period. Basically at that time in the market his 3 or 4 year old Surburban had very little value. I would hate to see my one or two year old Grand Cherokee loose 50 or 60% of its value. Perhaps a lease takes that variable out of the equation.
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  #43  
Old 12-29-2010, 04:01 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by Repo503 View Post
A well designed small car is fine in a collision and more likely to avoid one altogether, being more agile and having better braking ability.
That doesn't help when you're sitting at an intersection and a drunk slams into your rear end, nor does it help when someone runs a red light and blindsides you (due to their high speed) as you are crossing an intersection. Both have happened to me and had I been in a smaller car at the time, I wouldn't be typing this.

No, thank you, to small cars. I'd rather be in a WK2 or other large vehicle that has been designed for safety than something smaller regardless of heralded "crush zones" and ability to zip around and theoretically avoid an accident. If it came down to it, I'd gladly give up 0-60 performance and some towing ability in a larger, heavier vehicle like the WK2 than to drive a small car, and for reasons beyond just safety (cargo capacity, passenger comfort, smoother ride, etc.).

Edit: I'd like to add that it's not the drunks so much that I'm worried about; there are far more "texters" whom are a greater hazard than a drunk for the drunk is at least applying some cognitive ability to driving whereas the texter is applying zero.
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  #44  
Old 12-29-2010, 04:43 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

I love how this thread has went absolutely in the wrong direction.
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  #45  
Old 12-29-2010, 04:43 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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No, thank you, to small cars. I'd rather be in a WK2 or other large vehicle that has been designed for safety than something smaller regardless of heralded "crush zones" and ability to zip around and theoretically avoid an accident.
Well, i would prefer to sit in a new Mercedes Smart then in a old 80' US Pickup Truck or my old Defender. Size, weight.. are just a part of the relevant parameters for safety.

But sure, if you have two brand new and high engineered vehicle, then the bigger and more expensive one does have the higher potential for safety.

And last but not least, there is not only "the accident", we have a lot of different situations and sometime its way better if you have a lighter car with better breaks and sometime you need the larger crash zones from bigger and heavier cars.
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  #46  
Old 12-29-2010, 04:53 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?



This video (at minutes 1:32) illustrates the importance of mass in a head-on collision. The organs in your body (brain, heart, abdominal organs, bones) can only handle so much energy. I don't know how fast the cars are going, but lets say they are doing 50. The Mercedes keeps going forward after impact, which means the occupants were exposed to the amount of deceleration they probably would have felt from driving into a brick wall at 30. The "Smart" car actually changes directions and starts going backwards, which means the occupants were subjected to unbelievable acceleration forces, like they would have felt had the "Smart" car hit a brick wall at 80mph. The people in the Mercedes would probably have walked away. The people in the "Smart" car would have died in minutes as they bled to death internally from having their heart literally torn away from their aorta, etc.
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  #47  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:04 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

[QUOTE=Repo503;324895] I was merely bring to debunk the whole more weight = safer equation. There is so much more involved with creating a safe vehicle. If you were able to crash two sequioas together, but one weighed 500lbs less with the same crash structure and safety systems you would be much better off in the lighter one.[/QUOTE]

Wrong. All other factors being equal in a collision, a heavier vehicle will have the advantage over a lighter one whether being hit, or doing the hitting. Period.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:12 PM
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Re: If Gas Were $5.00 Would You Still Buy a WK2?

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Originally Posted by rdalcanto View Post


This video (at minutes 1:32) illustrates the importance of mass in a head-on collision. The organs in your body (brain, heart, abdominal organs, bones) can only handle so much energy. I don't know how fast the cars are going, but lets say they are doing 50. The Mercedes keeps going forward after impact, which means the occupants were exposed to the amount of deceleration they probably would have felt from driving into a brick wall at 30. The "Smart" car actually changes directions and starts going backwards, which means the occupants were subjected to unbelievable acceleration forces, like they would have felt had the "Smart" car hit a brick wall at 80mph. The people in the Mercedes would probably have walked away. The people in the "Smart" car would have died in minutes as they bled to death internally from having their heart literally torn away from their aorta, etc.
But this is a modern, new Mercedes with all the features you can get. Older and bigger cars don't have the safety cage from the new ones. If you reduce safety to weight, its just not the hole story.
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