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  #25  
Old 07-03-2014, 02:01 PM
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Re: JD Power Initial Quality

Is there a place where folks rate Jeep dealers specifically for their service? When I search for dealer service reviews in the ATL area I mostly get reviews of how politely people were or were not treated when they went in to buy a car ...
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  #26  
Old 07-03-2014, 02:16 PM
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Re: JD Power Initial Quality

I have to agree with the comments here about Jeep service departments. Most of my many experiences (in different areas of the country, too) with Jeep service departments have been fairly poor. In fact, it was one of the main reasons I was considering not going with Jeep again. I ended up ordering anyway, but a lot the merc/bmw/audi customers that bought a JGC this go around will think twice about it in the future if Jeep service departments don't shape up. Most of these new customers have no problem switching back in a heart beat.
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  #27  
Old 07-03-2014, 06:49 PM
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Re: JD Power Initial Quality

I'm new to the Jeep world even though I've desperately wanted a Wrangler since I was a kid and a Grand Cherokee since the redesign in 2011. I have always had imports - Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans and an Acura - and a healthy fear of American-built automobiles due to their reported unreliability.

The Toyota was actually the best of them all and I never had an issue even though I abused the hell out of it (early 20's - I was broke and irresponsible. ) The Honda Civic, literally fell apart at the 10 year mark. The Nissan was a piece of crap from the get go. The Acura needed a new transmission when it was just 5 months old and when we traded it in for a Honda Odyssey 2 years later, it needed the oil seals replaced and 3 engine mounts were broken. We bought my Ody brand new and put at least 10k in repairs in it over the past 9 years - the air conditioner went out 2x, the heat shields broke, 3 engine mounts broke, the starter went out 2x, and so on. Last month while we were headed out on vacation with my family and a loaded up van, the air went out again quickly followed by the
transmission, leaving us stranded far from home on a weekend when rental car places were closed. This was a 9 year old Honda with just 149K Mom-driven miles that was dealer serviced on schedule faithfully. The service tech said the air conditional literally exploded and would be 4k to fix in addition to the 3K to 4K to fix the tranny. So much for Honda quality! Oh yeah, and Honda's service area sucked - cramped waiting areas, no amenities, etc. I really missed being pampered at the Acura dealership.

Did I hesitate before buying the GC for my replacement vehicle? You betcha! However, it's a beautiful truck and has a much nicer interior than the Acura I had or the 2011 BMX x5 I also test drove. We took the chance, purchased a lifetime extended warranty just to be on the safe side, and I have been in love since I drove it home last month. Because of Jeep/Chrysler's reputation I will always be wary and keep an eye open for problems but until that happens I'm gonna enjoy my new ride. I had one of the most reliable automotive brands out there and still got screwed - how much worse can this be? ::knocking wood::
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marymoon View Post
I'm new to the Jeep world even though I've desperately wanted a Wrangler since I was a kid and a Grand Cherokee since the redesign in 2011. I have always had imports - Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans and an Acura - and a healthy fear of American-built automobiles due to their reported unreliability.

The Toyota was actually the best of them all and I never had an issue even though I abused the hell out of it (early 20's - I was broke and irresponsible. ) The Honda Civic, literally fell apart at the 10 year mark. The Nissan was a piece of crap from the get go. The Acura needed a new transmission when it was just 5 months old and when we traded it in for a Honda Odyssey 2 years later, it needed the oil seals replaced and 3 engine mounts were broken. We bought my Ody brand new and put at least 10k in repairs in it over the past 9 years - the air conditioner went out 2x, the heat shields broke, 3 engine mounts broke, the starter went out 2x, and so on. Last month while we were headed out on vacation with my family and a loaded up van, the air went out again quickly followed by the
transmission, leaving us stranded far from home on a weekend when rental car places were closed. This was a 9 year old Honda with just 149K Mom-driven miles that was dealer serviced on schedule faithfully. The service tech said the air conditional literally exploded and would be 4k to fix in addition to the 3K to 4K to fix the tranny. So much for Honda quality! Oh yeah, and Honda's service area sucked - cramped waiting areas, no amenities, etc. I really missed being pampered at the Acura dealership.

Did I hesitate before buying the GC for my replacement vehicle? You betcha! However, it's a beautiful truck and has a much nicer interior than the Acura I had or the 2011 BMX x5 I also test drove. We took the chance, purchased a lifetime extended warranty just to be on the safe side, and I have been in love since I drove it home last month. Because of Jeep/Chrysler's reputation I will always be wary and keep an eye open for problems but until that happens I'm gonna enjoy my new ride. I had one of the most reliable automotive brands out there and still got screwed - how much worse can this be? ::knocking wood::
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  #29  
Old 07-03-2014, 07:42 PM
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Re: JD Power Initial Quality

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Originally Posted by GCLimited View Post
Potentially 3 trips to the dealership in one year, and you're happy with that?

45 minutes while I waited, 20 minute drive, did it over lunch.
Called same day and they said sure come on over.

First year of a new transmission and radio.

That's just fine by me.

Recalls happen to every brand.

I'm starting to wonder if I wasted $$$ on the extended warranty.

Most people bring to dealer for oil change that often.

2 co-workers bought gc after seeing mine and they are happy too.
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  #30  
Old 07-06-2014, 09:18 AM
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Re: JD Power Initial Quality

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Originally Posted by canistel View Post
This is such utter BS; as if all Asian brands are somehow the epitome of quality . You can spot the irrational fanboys when they start throwing words around like "never", "period" etc.

By the way, Toyota and GM are currently duking it out for "most recalls issued", you may want to move your devoted brand loyalty over to another brand
This comment is absurd. Remember...the quoted post this is in reference to is from someone who BOUGHT A JEEP. And overall...the post was positive about Jeep, just that Jeeps weren't going to be as reliable as Asian brands. Recalls aren't the issue here, its these little nagging problems, QC issues, assembly issues. Its REALLY frustrating with a new vehicle trust me. You may not have any issues, or you may just not care...but having a vehicle with 1,500 miles in the shop for two weeks SUCKS. And that does not happen with Toyotas or Hondas. I've NEVER had a vehicle in a shop for a week ever...other than the Jeep. I've not only owned Toyotas either...Fords...GM vehicles...Volkswwagen...none of them spent more time in the shop than my 2011 GC.

But...before you call me a "fanboy"....I replaced that Jeep with a new Jeep! Its a great vehicle, it just sucks its so hard for them to get this QC straight. I have a misaligned interior panel...thats all...I consider myself lucky. I am however going to the beach tomorrow in it and I'm watching the CV axle boots like a hawk because mine is in the range...which SUCKS to have to worry about on a Jeep with 3k miles. I should be worried about nothing. Again...no recall! Just a very quiet TSB. Waiting for their customers axle boots to explode with grease. Nice. At least Toyota issues a recall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhe Wiz
I agree completely that Jeep has QC issues, no doubt about it. BUT be careful to note that JDP only gives number of problems per 100 vehicles but says absolutely nothing about the severity of those problems. That's the issue I have with most of the surveys. Yes there's a problem, but how bad is it?
But thats exactly the point about the initial quality survey. The idea is not to test reliability, its to measure how satisfied owners are in the initial quality of their vehicles. The issues may be minor, they may be major, the point is 2014 Jeep owners are less satisfied with the initial quality of their vehicles than any other carmaker but Fiat. Seeing that Fiat is at the bottom...I'm dubious about their ability to help Jeep improve that.

I think Jeep's issues are mainly early issues with uConnect (this happened to Ford a few years ago with Sync and MyFordTouch, they were at the bottom and then up a lot the next year) and other early 2014 teething issues. But...Fiat doesn't have a tech suite that you can lay blame on for their low performance. Chrysler is much higher...but they still have a myriad of models without the new uConnect...like the T&C...

I'll be very interested to see how IQS for 2015 looks. The GC is largely unchanged, the Cherokee will be largely unchanged, and uConnect seems to be working pretty well. I would HOPE it would take a big jump.
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  #31  
Old 07-06-2014, 10:06 AM
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Re: JD Power Initial Quality

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
But thats exactly the point about the initial quality survey. The idea is not to test reliability, its to measure how satisfied owners are in the initial quality of their vehicles. The issues may be minor, they may be major, the point is 2014 Jeep owners are less satisfied with the initial quality of their vehicles than any other carmaker but Fiat.
Careful! The JD Power survey is NOT about SATISFACTION, it's about trips to the dealer, or PROBLEM COUNT. It says nothing of owner satisfaction!

That's part of my point. Engine failure is not the same as...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
I think Jeep's issues are mainly early issues with uConnect (this happened to Ford a few years ago with Sync and MyFordTouch, they were at the bottom and then up a lot the next year) and other early 2014 teething issues. But...Fiat doesn't have a tech suite that you can lay blame on for their low performance. Chrysler is much higher...but they still have a myriad of models without the new uConnect...like the T&C...
Here you are essentially agreeing with me.

Trouble with JD power is that it says nothing about severity of the issues OR owner satisfaction. It just counts problems. Not saying that count is insignificant OR that it should be ignored, only that everyone should remember this fact and use other sources when making a complete decision.

If one car has 50 problems per hundred and they're all engine/transmission hardware problems, and another has 110 problems per hundred that are all cosmetic or software flashes, which is worse?
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  #32  
Old 07-06-2014, 10:28 AM
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Re: JD Power Initial Quality

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Originally Posted by Zhe Wiz View Post
Careful! The JD Power survey is NOT about SATISFACTION, it's about trips to the dealer, or PROBLEM COUNT. It says nothing of owner satisfaction!
True, but it infers satisfaction with number of problems. "I dont like the cupholders" is a problem. "My engine exploded" is a problem, etc etc lol. Less problems=more satisfaction.

The idea being, hopefully on a brand new car reliability isn't really an issue. They have dependability studies after years for that.

Quote:
Trouble with JD power is that it says nothing about severity of the issues OR owner satisfaction. It just counts problems. Not saying that count is insignificant OR that it should be ignored, only that everyone should remember this fact and use other sources when making a complete decision.
None of these things is going to make your purchase decision for you. They're all just indicators of an overall situation. Bottom line is you won't find a measure by which carmakers are judged, rated, surveyed, etc where Jeep is not really low right now. Overall thats showing you theres an issue right now.

Quote:
If one car has 50 problems per hundred and they're all engine/transmission hardware problems, and another has 110 problems per hundred that are all cosmetic or software flashes, which is worse?
Honestly, if I'm the new car owner and I'm having to take it to the dealer all the time...they're both about the same. A trip to the dealer for a warranty job is a trip to the dealer for a warranty job. Its a PITA. They had my Jeep for a week trying to replace a switch...whether it was a switch or a transmission...I still didn't have my car for a week and had no loaner.

Another issue I've found is that Jeep can't do anything fast, and it doesnt seem to be right the first time. Take these CV Axle replacements. Nobody has the axles. Dealers have to order them once they've got the issue. Thats a week the thing is off the road when Chrysler knows this is an issue and has a TSB, lets have our dealers keep some axles on hand. That was always an issue with the electrical components that always needed replaced on the 2011. "Oh we have to order that, it'll be here next week"...well...one service stop turns into two...or I dont have my Jeep for a week. With Toyota/Lexus, they order things and they come in that afternoon or the next day! I kid you not, I had the same component on a Lexus replaced once and on the 2011 Jeep the HVAC control panel. Lexus had it the next day, Jeep needed a week or so. Lexus is a FOREIGN CAR! Luckily I found a dealer that had that control panel that had come in for someone else and they put it in mine because I was leaving for a trip the next day.

FYI, on the Jeep the panel went bad in the first year, as in stopped working. In the Lexus a backlight went out when it was like 6 years old and it was covered under the extended warranty.

Lots of people are having repeated failures...meaning dealers are installing new axles that are also faulty...I had that issue with a couple switch clusters that were replaced too...the replacements also failed.
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  #33  
Old 07-06-2014, 11:49 AM
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Re: JD Power Initial Quality

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
Honestly, if I'm the new car owner and I'm having to take it to the dealer all the time...they're both about the same.
Although I would again argue that the answer to my question is subjective, you're answer still proves the point I was trying to make - JD Powers Ranks the 110 problem vehicle WAY BELOW the 50 problem vehicle.

IMHO I'd rank the 110 problem vehicle ABOVE the 50 problem vehicle, but again, that's where subjectivity comes in. You can't look at the raw JD Powers numbers and get as much out of them as I'd like. I want to know what sort of problems those 110 were because it makes a difference. You can't see that difference in the JD Powers rankings.

Jeep dealers apparently do suck. I wouldn't know yet because I haven't been there. I'm sure to find out some day soon, a recall lurks.

I do hate that Jeep keeps cranking out new vehicles instead of fixing broken ones. They could pull axles from the assembly line to fix broken Jeeps and make sure dealers are stocked. For obvious (bean counter) reasons they won't do that. But shouldn't they? I was indirectly affected by this very issue when my ordered Jeep was caught in inspection with the axle issue. Took them 3+ months to fix it and ship. That's almost the same problem. They'd rather churn out new vehicles than slow down and fix the problems. Might be good for their short-term bottom line, but I have to think it hurts them long term due to dissuasions like this one.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:58 AM
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Re: JD Power Initial Quality

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Originally Posted by Zhe Wiz View Post
Although I would again argue that the answer to my question is subjective, you're answer still proves the point I was trying to make - JD Powers Ranks the 110 problem vehicle WAY BELOW the 50 problem vehicle.

IMHO I'd rank the 110 problem vehicle ABOVE the 50 problem vehicle, but again, that's where subjectivity comes in. You can't look at the raw JD Powers numbers and get as much out of them as I'd like. I want to know what sort of problems those 110 were because it makes a difference. You can't see that difference in the JD Powers rankings.
But you're thinking in absolutes that don't actually exist. You don't have that extreme of 50 per 100 serious mechanical failures. If you had that, they'd be on the news.

This study tells you in general what manufacturers are having initial quality issues at what time. It works pretty well. We've seen lots of issues here with the 2014s...and lo and behold they're at the bottom. I predicted that a year ago. The study isn't about "what are the problems", its just that "the problems are there". Its a satisfaction study not a reliability study. Like I said, "I don't like the cupholders" is a "problem".
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  #35  
Old 07-06-2014, 12:47 PM
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Re: JD Power Initial Quality

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
Its a satisfaction study not a reliability study. Like I said, "I don't like the cupholders" is a "problem".

I believe they call it an initial quality study, not a satisfaction survey as you like to call it. This study doesn't care if you like the cup holders. Their concern is that they aren't broken or don't fit properly. You can twist it any way you want, Jeep is near the bottom of the heap.


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  #36  
Old 07-06-2014, 01:23 PM
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Re: JD Power Initial Quality

Jeep has problems, that's admitted by nearly everyone here, myself included.

I never said such an extreme exists, but you can't tell by looking at JD alone. You can't make an educated decision on JD alone. It has limitations, I'm pointing out those limitations. I'd like to see the data behind it, would be extremely helpful.
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