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  #109  
Old 07-28-2012, 05:06 PM
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You can manipulate anything to fail...

I've yet to see anyone or reports of a WK2 rolling over. Between all the WK2s on the road, how many cumulative miles do you think have been driven without failure? No roll, no foul!


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  #110  
Old 07-28-2012, 05:33 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by i0r15 View Post
Listen... This is not like believeing in global warming... I think we all here wants the Grand Cherokee to pass every test possible. But it do raise some questions when seeing a behaviour like that.
You guys can slam the swedish magazine all you want. But know this... Not many cars they test fails the moose test. And when some did... Like the Toyota Hilux and the Mercedes A-Class... They got a very serious response from both manufacturers wanting to look into the issue in orded to mend it.
Sure they might be amateurs as you say... As many other drivers out there... But they are not like you say they are... ColdCase.... You got a lot to learn about Europe and how things works.
It's one of Swedens oldest car magazines and they will not ruin their reputation "faking" tests.

Ohhh and if you haven't noticed yet.... I'm swedish :P

sorry bro...its a BS frickin test and they screwed it up. That has been proven by a recognized, professional organization with scienticfic process. They are looking to sell magazines.....PERIOD!
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  #111  
Old 07-28-2012, 08:09 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

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Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
Do you believe everything you see/read in supermarket tabloids... or you see on YouTube? You may want to consider the sources of you information before you go off half cocked.
Instead I should believe anonymous posters on a Jeep forum?

Get real buddy.
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  #112  
Old 07-28-2012, 11:01 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

You can also see consumer reports
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  #113  
Old 07-29-2012, 01:16 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Scott, Please tell me why you think it is a BS test ?
Doubting the facts, just because you do not like the results, is not a rational way to think.
Show me CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE to counter the Swedish test and I will listen, but placing faith in some German magazine that just says it's OK, is not rational thought.
I am open minded, but the evidence is not looking good towards the Jeep and the lack of response form Jeep is also disturbing.
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  #114  
Old 07-29-2012, 01:24 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

those are NOT facts......

nothing but lies and deception. I could care less the results or what vehicle it is. Their test has 0 scientific method, 0 governing bodies and 0 certification by a respected agency. The wk2 has passed EVERY test by other testing institute with certifications from nuetral governing agencies. Why do you accept this unscientific, uncertified, unrepeatable deception?
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  #115  
Old 07-29-2012, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
those are NOT facts......

nothing but lies and deception. I could care less the results or what vehicle it is. Their test has 0 scientific method, 0 governing bodies and 0 certification by a respected agency. The wk2 has passed EVERY test by other testing institute with certifications from nuetral governing agencies. Why do you accept this unscientific, uncertified, unrepeatable deception?
Preach it brotha!

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  #116  
Old 07-29-2012, 01:42 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Scott, as you know, anyone can build something to pass an official test. There is no disputing what you see on the Moose Test video, how do you explain the results they got with Jeep present at the testing ?
Show me ANY official test that has the full GVM in the test. This is what the problem is. The Jeep may be safe with 1 person, but fully loaded I am not so sure.
There is also that test by a USA magazine where the car failed miserably, but Jeep fixed the ESP system with a TSB.
The fact is there WAS a problem that a magazine found and Jeep fixed it.
It is not unreasonable to assume there is another problem, be it with Export or EU models only, but there is still the possibility of a problem.
You say lies and deception, I say disturbing results. You prove they are lies and deception, I can prove my opinion.
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  #117  
Old 07-29-2012, 08:24 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
You can also see consumer reports

Jeep Grand Cherokee fails Swedish moose test, lessons for U.S. consumers


"Our test is less severe than the "moose test" with more distance between the entry cones and the gate cones, typically resulting in less steering input. Plus, we test the vehicle loaded with only a driver and a full fuel tank."

"Regardless, it could be argued that overloading it by 110 pounds falls within the realm of foreseeable misuse by a consumer and such a variance should be accounted for in vehicle development."

"As a class, SUVs are more top-heavy than cars and are more prone to rollovers. As good as modern stability control and chassis design often is, there is no way to change the laws of physics. But it is worrisome that other SUVs tested by the Swedish magazine, including the Volvo XC90 and Volkswagen Touareg, did not have any problems in this test."

"Despite the war of the words that is ongoing, we wouldn't be surprised if Jeep would change the electronic stability control (ESC) calibrations on the Grand Cherokee going forward to improve their performance in this test and possibly adjust the recommended weight limits."


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  #118  
Old 08-23-2012, 06:23 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyh View Post
Jeep Grand Cherokee fails Swedish moose test, lessons for U.S. consumers


"Our test is less severe than the "moose test" with more distance between the entry cones and the gate cones, typically resulting in less steering input. Plus, we test the vehicle loaded with only a driver and a full fuel tank."

"Regardless, it could be argued that overloading it by 110 pounds falls within the realm of foreseeable misuse by a consumer and such a variance should be accounted for in vehicle development."

"As a class, SUVs are more top-heavy than cars and are more prone to rollovers. As good as modern stability control and chassis design often is, there is no way to change the laws of physics. But it is worrisome that other SUVs tested by the Swedish magazine, including the Volvo XC90 and Volkswagen Touareg, did not have any problems in this test."

"Despite the war of the words that is ongoing, we wouldn't be surprised if Jeep would change the electronic stability control (ESC) calibrations on the Grand Cherokee going forward to improve their performance in this test and possibly adjust the recommended weight limits."


Supermarket tabloid
How is that test anything like a supermarket tabloid???
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  #119  
Old 08-26-2012, 08:08 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

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Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
sorry bro...its a BS frickin test and they screwed it up. That has been proven by a recognized, professional organization with scienticfic process. They are looking to sell magazines.....PERIOD!
Excuse me but I believe it is not that simple.

The air suspension in the overland does not appear to be safe. I own a CRD Overland identical to the ones tested and this is my impression after 8.000 miles.

I think we all believed that the suspension is the same as the new Mercedes ML but this is not fully true. The ML has an Active Dampening System which makes the difference from being safe or not.

A shock absorber is meant to mitigate the movement of the chassis and our "Bouncy Lift" suspension does just the opposite.

In the moose test video all the problem is the way it bounces back when traveling from the first turn to the second. Just focus on this when watching the videos and I am sure you will all agree.

The Quadra lift air units have a good balance in the coil part, but in the shock absorbing one... it is just not valid. This becomes more obvious when you load the vehicle, as the inertia in up-down movement is bigger, and so the shock absorbers are unable to do their work.

More ESP will only brake more here and there, cut more throttle etc. but the problem is not that one. I believe this is why Jeep are so quiet and surprisingly no one out there is pointing out the difference between the air suspension and the standard one.



I am very confident that if the test is repeated exactly but with a standard suspension, everything will be better (have a look on this one from EURONCAP, http://www.euroncap.com/results/jeep.../2011/460.aspx just below the picture is the link to the videos, it is quite aggressive and the jeep behaves good... but in this case it is equiped with standard suspension and it is still a little bit bouncy at the end of the second run of this test) Of course this Swedish magazine was looking for some extra sales, but they were smart and took an overland with the air suspension for the test. Once you have driven it for a while and have taken some big bumps in highways, your confidence on this suspension is wiped out. It is comfortable and practical, but im my opinion not safe.

Final problem is that with standard suspension it would be very easy and affordable to change the shock absorbers, but with the Air one... no way or just too expensive if you mount the ML ones provided they are compatible (perhaps around 5.000$ and no electronic unit to control the ADS but you could maybe lock them in the sport position)

I believe Jeep do have a problem with this air suspension. So bad that I am sure it will not be silenced just that easy, it will come back to them badly and it is just a matter of time for some overlands to start bouncing and rolling over with families inside.


Everything in my unit is fine but this horrible suspension. This is my first Jeep and will sadly be my last one unless Jeep do care of their customers and come out with a replacement of this air system (imagine the cost… no way they will do that. The sad fact is that from a company point of view many would say there is no viable solution due to the huge cost it would have, so better sail through it or saying “do not overload it… you should all weight your luggage piece by piece when going on a holyday trip, and of course weight all your family and choose who to leave because you are exceeding 100kg…” quite funny


Come-on!! lets be serious and realistic, jeep!!!! not so evidently and politically slippery. It’s a shame.
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  #120  
Old 08-26-2012, 10:36 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

you have your beliefs and I will have mine
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